InRangeTV: "Do you think the toxicity of gun culture past and present is a roadblock to gun rights conversation?"

[Will_White]

I think when Karl talks about the toxcicity of "gun culture" it's about the general perception and how to change it as well as how we treat those that might be more freedom minded but aren't traditional conservatives. E.G. Weed Legalization and LGBTQ Rights. Groups that want more individual freedom but when they interact with "Gun People" they're met with hostility because "It's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve".

I'm not saying that all "Gun People" are that way but if even 25% of "Gun People" are that way it's the negative interactions that people on the fence remember.

 

[CountryGent]

I think when Karl talks about the toxcicity of "gun culture" it's about the general perception and how to change it as well as how we treat those that might be more freedom minded but aren't traditional conservatives. E.G. Weed Legalization and LGBTQ Rights. Groups that want more individual freedom but when they interact with "Gun People" they're met with hostility because "It's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve".

In hearing his response to the question, and the following tangentially related inquiry, I think is exactly what he was getting at. It is also painfully obvious that some who have replied in this thread didn't actually watch the clip.

 

[Soli]

I don't respond to doctrinal questions that presume agreement on the inquirers opinion.

 

[CRBMoA]

Racism, homophobia, and misogyny are rampant in gun culture. Denying that only makes it more toxic and further alienates potential allies.

I am am man of color and will be 55 this month. Those ills are not exclusive to or even representative of 'gun culture', whatever the hell that is.

But to say that they are hallmarks of gun owners shows WAY more about YOU and your POV and AGENDA than it does about the large majority of American gun owners in general and NWFA members in particular.

Your keyboard is emboldening you to spout things you would never say to the face of most of the men I know as gun owners. Myself included.

 

[mhayd93]

I think when Karl talks about the toxcicity of "gun culture" it's about the general perception and how to change it as well as how we treat those that might be more freedom minded but aren't traditional conservatives. E.G. Weed Legalization and LGBTQ Rights. Groups that want more individual freedom but when they interact with "Gun People" they're met with hostility because "It's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve".

I'm not saying that all "Gun People" are that way but if even 25% of "Gun People" are that way it's the negative interactions that people on the fence remember.

If Adam and Steve want to exercise their 2nd Amendment, why does it matter what other 2nd Amendment exercisers are like? My "shooting" group is basically relegated to close family members; there are millions of other gun owners out there whom I have no idea what values or ethics they hold!

The best part is, I don't have to care what others are like within the 2A "community;" I like firearms, I use firearms, and I don't care whether I am "accepted" or not! Again referring back to your "Adam and Steve" example, it would be like if I went to a Gay Pride Parade and then complained that the culture is too off-putting and un-inclusive for heterosexuals.

Rights are rights, no one is obligated to change their values so that you feel better exercising the 2nd Amendment! The "toxic culture" surrounding the 1st Amendment, for example—by groups such as Antifa and BLM—does not take away my desire to utilize my freedom of speech and expression; why are gun-owners then expected to be saints and salesmen?

The Constitution and Bill of Rights has already done the work for you, stop seeking acceptance from people to determine whether you will utilize the liberties you have been granted!

 

[OldBroad44]

I've generally found gun culture, experienced in person, generally pretty wholesome and healthy. I've seen plenty on both sides in writing or on the internet that is toxic. What I consider most toxic from the other side is pride in helplessness, fierce desire to teach their children helplessness, belief that all citizens should be helpless and should be completely dependent on government for everything including their own self defense, and that anyone who is not helpless is evil. Some who follow that pattern these days actually seem to hate all competence or accomplishment in any form, even in men, but especially in women.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Racism, homophobia, and misogyny are rampant in gun culture. Denying that only makes it more toxic and further alienates potential allies.

Yea right. Divisive much?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Yea right. Divisive much?

I'm still waiting on a reply from them! I wanna hear the 'splanation for all that nonsense what got spouted, then watch as he/she/it runs and hides after tossing out that hand grenade!

 

[CRBMoA]

I, for one, am beyond fed up with apron clutching mama's boys telling me angry white men are mean to me and hate me and are not to be trusted.

More importantly, for what purpose is this 'wisdom' being imparted to little ole me?

 

[CRBMoA]

I'm still waiting on a reply from them! I wanna hear the 'splanation for all that nonsense what got spouted, then watch as he/she/it runs and hides after tossing out that hand grenade!

Wanna borrow my cricket?

 

[Will_White]

If Adam and Steve want to exercise their 2nd Amendment, why does it matter what other 2nd Amendment exercisers are like? My "shooting" group is basically relegated to close family members; there are millions of other gun owners out there whom I have no idea what values or ethics they hold!

The best part is, I don't have to care what others are like within the 2A "community;" I like firearms, I use firearms, and I don't care whether I am "accepted" or not! Again referring back to your "Adam and Steve" example, it would be like if I went to a Gay Pride Parade and then complained that the culture is too off-putting and un-inclusive for heterosexuals.

Rights are rights, no one is obligated to change their values so that you feel better exercising the 2nd Amendment! The "toxic culture" surrounding the 1st Amendment, for example—by groups such as Antifa and BLM—does not take away my desire to utilize my freedom of speech and expression; why are gun-owners then expected to be saints and salesmen?

The Constitution and Bill of Rights has already done the work for you, stop seeking acceptance from people to determine whether you will utilize the liberties you have been granted!

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are just pieces of paper. Holding them up as a defense to the flamethrower that is the mainstream media and liberal politicians isn't going to help. We've been doing that since 1934 and it hasn't worked.

If we want to maintain or expand our rights we need to get more people on our side. We can't do that when the only people they see on our side are actively campaigning against them.

 

[mhayd93]

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are just pieces of paper. Holding them up as a defense to the flamethrower that is the mainstream media and liberal politicians isn't going to help. We've been doing that since 1934 and it hasn't worked.

If we want to maintain or expand our rights we need to get more people on our side. We can't do that when the only people they see on our side are actively campaigning against them.

I think your argument is flawed and lacking in substantial evidence; where is there rampant campaigning against these potential new gun owners (from presumably "non-traditional" backgrounds) from the current crop of gun-owners/gun organizations?

From my perspective, the negative portrayal of gun owners—and subsequent buy-in from fence sitters—is from the mainstream media and anti-2A groups. It is our portrayal of being deviant that is more successful than our actual "deviance" (whatever that may be)!

I certainly agree that it helps for current 2A exercisers to try to bring others into the fold, but I feel no obligation or inherent duty to do so! At the end of the day, people get to choose what they choose and do what they do, even if that is in opposition of my values!

 

[CRBMoA]

The 2nd is about restricting the ability of the government to restrict the RKBA. Doesn't say anything about where you grind your naughty bits.
Get back to us with ONE instance of overt anything you acuse the Fudds of doing and then we can talk. At this point, it is all propaganda and spin.

 

[Mark W.]

Shut off the internet and 90% of this silly crap goes away.

 

[CountryGent]

Every American needs to feel just as comfy with the 2nd Amendment as they do the 1st.

I couldn't agree with this more.

 

[Will_White]

The 2nd is about restricting the ability of the government to restrict the RKBA. Doesn't say anything about where you grind your naughty bits.
Get back to us with ONE instance of overt anything you acuse the Fudds of doing and then we can talk. At this point, it is all propaganda and spin.

So Republicans haven't been campaigning against Trans Rights, or Marijuana Legalization?

We agree that the 2nd Amendment is for everybody but you can't expect someone to vote against rights that effect them daily to protect a right that they are indifferent to.

 

[Benny762]

ITT "it's not happening to me personally so it doesn't exist"

 

[CRBMoA]

So Republicans haven't been campaigning against Trans Rights, or Marijuana Legalization?

We agree that the 2nd Amendment is for everybody but you can't expect someone to vote against rights that effect them daily to protect a right that they are indifferent to.

It may come as a shock to you, but two things are apparently beyond your grasp. Lemme help you:

1.) 2A has nothing to do with what you put in your mouth. I am really trying to take you seriously, but you cannot seem to track the conversation, and

2.) Not all gun owners are Republicans. Again, this should not need to be explained, but, you keep conflating the issue to accommodate your forced narrative.

Class dismissed. I am going outside.

 

[GWS]

Racism, homophobia, and misogyny are rampant in gun culture. Denying that only makes it more toxic and further alienates potential allies.

Rampant?
Get serious, its far less rampant in gun culture than it is in progressive culture.
Which side of the political spectrum believes that minorities cannot survive without their help? THAT is racism! The progressives are the ones who think that minorities lack the ability to get an ID card, to get a job on their own merits or to act in a civilized manner. They always make some excuse for crime rates or rioting or whatever, if minorities are involved To wit, look at progressive's take on the BLM/antifa riots of last summer vs the riot in the Capitol 1/6. On one side billions of dollars in damage and numerous murders committed over a period of months! Whereas the DC riot was half a day and the only person murdered was an unarmed woman shot by the Capitol police. Yet, who is the FBI chasing all over the nation to bring to justice? Have you heard of Maxine Waters getting impeached for inciting violence in Minneapolis? Yeah, me neither.
No, I do not have tons of friends who are non-white but those friends who would be classed as minorities are unanimous in their resentment of the progressives and their bigotry of low expectations.

Misogyny? Again, you think the "gun culture" has some corner on that? Give me some data on that one please, because it appears to me that most of the high-profile sexual harassment cases I've seen of late have been liberals like Harvey Weinstein, Andrew Cuomo Oh and who's that guy? Oh yeah Joe Biden. (No, I haven't forgotten Donald Trump's accusers)
Homophobia? What does that even mean? Do you see gun owners cowering in fear when a gay person walks by? Fainting if they see a lesbian at the grocery store?
Let me fill you in "Gun culture" is an incredibly nebulous term. It crosses all racial and political spectrums as there are liberal, conservative, white, black, brown yellow, gay, straight etc, all of whom own guns. Gun culture is a population of human beings and with any population of humans there is a percentage of them that will always be screwups. That said the vast majority of us in the "gun culture" want simply to be left alone. We pay our bills and our taxes and we generally don't care what you or anyone else does in their homes. I'll bet good money that the vast majority of folks in the minority communities feel the same way., i.e. I am not hurting anyone with what I'm doing so leave me the hell alone.
However, we are sick of being blamed for the actions of fools, criminals, gangsters or psychotic individuals who commit heinous crimes while using guns. Do you see similar treatment of automobile owners, medical professionals or folks who enjoy a drink? Are all car owners blamed and punished for the actions of drunk drivers? Are all doctors vilified because of the staggering number of deaths due to medical errors and malpractice? No, only gun owners get blamed for the bad/evil acts of a very few people So, yes we get angry when some ninny who is frightened by guns wants to make a law that infringes our right to keep and bear arms. THAT is the real source of our anger not some facile slur like racism, homophobia or misogyny.
Cast the mote from your own eye...

 

[CountryGent]

I am going outside.

Excellent idea. Think I'll head into the forest in a bit too.