InRangeTV: "Do you think the toxicity of gun culture past and present is a roadblock to gun rights conversation?"

[CountryGent]

There may be two very different things being considered here.

Do I think firearm ownership and the freedom to said is "toxic"? Oh, hell no! No how, no way, no question. It is a fundamental, inalienable, right. Like the 1A, so fundamental to the core of what it is to be a human being. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, baby. Absolutely beautiful. And worth giving our every last ounce to preserve this unique expression of freedom.

How about the gun culture in present, circa early 21st century, America? Uh ... oh dear. In the past some of the best good people I ever met, worked with, engaged in business enterprises, or just partied with were "gun people". I could not be more thankful to those who helped me along the way. Now (or in the past decade and a half or so)? I'm going to be blunt; there is a reason I no longer bother with local meets or attend gun shows, setup my own FFL to handle transfers for locals, and do almost all of my shooting on private land I own. Sorry, I'm not hip to ugly politics, willful ignorance, open racism, anti-sex prudery, misogynistic drivel, anti-intellectuals or the crackpot conspiracy crew. Really boils down to time-management.

Ultimately probably doesn't matter; lets place both feet on the gas-peddle to preserving our freedoms and rolling back the insane BS that currently infringes upon us. Anyone willing to fight that fight, I'm with you — lock, stock and barrel — in a manner of speaking.

P.S. Minor reforms? I'm all for them. Repeal GCA68 and NFA34. Institute national reciprocity. Put some teeth into the interstate travel clause of FOPA86. Have the Feds insure civil rights in all states, even if it an anti-freedom toilet like the one about two hours south of this patch. Arrest, try, convict, and jail any bureaucrat who violates our rights. I suppose "minor" may vary upon one's perspective. Honk-honk.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Toxic Gun Culture is a culture where ONE side believes in dis arming the competition! You can see it all through out history, the people who "Think" they are in positions of power and that THEY get to decide what's right and wrong, and how every one else should go about their lives, it's the Small man's syndrome, My junk is too small, beta male/female, gotta strike others down so I feel good about my self, gotta do unto others before I get dun unto, types of folks who cant seem to keep their yappers shut and leave everyone else alone! ANY time I see, hear, meet someone who tries to tell me or others how to live, what to do, how to do it, and worse, what I can have, cannot have, shouldn't be allowed to have, or do, or be, then we have a major problem, Toxicity! Gun Rights ARE ABSOLUTE, not open to discussion or compromise, and no amount of argument can or will ever change that,, the problem is, the powers that be refuse to honor those rights, and so here we are, with a bunch of cracked heads that cannot fathom the absolutes of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" they seem hell bent to infringe the hell out of our rights! This Bullsh!t called a "Living Document" is a woke term for "We don't give a sh!t what the constitution and B.o.R says" we will twist it to fit our wishes and desires today, and they use the terms "We need to mold things to fit modern times, where no one should have a gun because no one should need a gun, and then they say, no body is going to take away your 2nd, we support your right to hunt! BULL SH!T!

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Im not a fan of Karl.
However, he had "some" talking points I can agree with. We as a gun community don't have to be an echo chamber, but my personal interactions with Karl have told me everything I need to know about him.

The only toxic stuff from the firearms community is the hyper commercialization and fear profiteering.. then again.. that is the free market and that same nonsense infests every single facet of life these days gun related or not. .

Both anti gun folks and pro gun folks have their extremes. One side can be seen as toxic by the other.. however most pro-firearms folks are pro-freedom.. pro-freedom applies to everyone, it provides choices to engage in said freedom or not.
Anti freedom engages in pointless, inefficient restrictions, additional levels of bureaucracy, fees and taxes as well as a movement built upon lies to fool the ignorant masses.. Seeing how the antis and certain politically leaning folks target the group I happen to associate with.. well that tells me all I need to know. My side isnt toxic.. theirs is. Im not trying to hinder their way of life or pursuit of happiness.. however they often cannot claim the same in return.
My way of life and my views dont force a gun into their hand. They maintain that choice to be armed or not..however with their anti gun views, they seek to take the gun out of mine.

 

[Hueco]

We've all heard the story - dude comes home from a long day at work and feels something in the air; it's tense. His wife is doing chores and hasn't even said hello. He's trying to figure out what's going on and sees the dishes left in the sink and thinks, "crap, I was going to do those last night." He starts to talk and is cut off by an angry outburst from his wife that starts with his not doing the dishes and continues into the shouting match of the decade.

And, if I have to tell you that the fight above is not really about the dishes, then PM me and I'll explain why you're still single.

So, when you ask the question, Do you think the toxicity of gun culture past and present is a roadblock to gun rights conversation…I'm looking right past that because, well, it's never about the dishes.

For one, there is no "gun culture." Not really. There are far too many sub-cultures and groups of people that own guns, like guns, love guns, or hate guns (but yes, still own them) for there to be an overarching gun culture. After all, a culture is the customs, art, and social institutions of a particular people or social group…and you can't tell me that the John Brown Gun Club shares much more than an affinity with AR's with the Proud Boys.

Who is asking the question, then? I'm going to assume it is someone who has not been educated in anything having to do with the gun - neither the history, current legality, nor how to operate one. They probably lean left on the political spectrum and may have even considered obtaining a gun in the past year.

Would this community welcome that person with open arms into the ranks of law abiding smokeless powder aficionados? Would that person feel comfortable with the armed individuals now surrounding them during a range day? Or, like what happened in my last class, would they stroll in to catch a conversation that could be summed up as "liberal bashing" to then get assigned a target next to an elderly gent who couldn't stop talking about how Glocks couldn't shoot straight while he used his Sig P210 Target model to paint a group that Jackson Pollock would be proud of?

Well, whereas I brushed it off and moved on with my life, I can only imagine that this hypothetical newcomer to gunland may be rethinking the price of admission. Out of the many sub cultures in the gun world - far too many are somewhere between rude and downright inhospitable to new comers, especially when those newcomers do not align to "the right" politics.

And, if we are this bad at bringing people into the cultures, then how else could this be anything but a "roadblock to gun rights conversations?"

The only way we keep the right to bear arms for another hundred years is if we diversify. Every American needs to feel just as comfy with the 2nd Amendment as they do the 1st. The fact that "gun owners" are politically on "the right" and associated with the Republican Party alone is antithetical to Americanism.

To answer your question on what I do to press forward our rights? I work for a tech giant that is most assuredly left leaning and whose corporate politics are anti-gun rights…and I take every co worker I can out shooting to teach them about their right to bear arms. They're almost all registered Democrats. But, maybe, just maybe, I'll finally reach enough of them to turn the tide in my office.

 

[P7M13]

Toxic masculinity / toxic gun culture.
Shave your cock, balls and underarms. Buy a Glock.
There. The toxicity is down the drain.
Now go make a porn vignette and move on.....

 

[nwslopoke]

I mean, those saying there's no toxicity haven't seen the bumper stickers threatening violence to anybody even considering some sort of minor firearm reform. Instead of having an intelligent conversation, it immediately turns to "dOnT tAke mUh GuNz LiB." Also pretty toxic when gun people (not the rational ones, which are too few) refuse to even accept non-shooters as Americans. Yes there's toxic far left, but boy it sure goes the other way too. And yes, InRange is the best guntube channel and Ian is my lord and savior.

Toxic? No. Unless you would agree some other personal freedoms and choices should be labeled Toxic as well. It's okay that some people feel uncomfortable at times. It's the price of a free society. Elimination of freedoms is Toxic.

 

[Marjin]

I mean, those saying there's no toxicity haven't seen the bumper stickers threatening violence to anybody even considering some sort of minor firearm reform. Instead of having an intelligent conversation, it immediately turns to "dOnT tAke mUh GuNz LiB." Also pretty toxic when gun people (not the rational ones, which are too few) refuse to even accept non-shooters as Americans. Yes there's toxic far left, but boy it sure goes the other way too. And yes, InRange is the best guntube channel and Ian is my lord and savior.

So, basically your version of 'intelligent conversation' means to somehow converse with anti-gunners on points of emotional drama for them, with the idea that they have something valid to say...the 2nd ammendment is an inviolate part of the constitution...give an inch and they will take a mile....

 

[NW Backpacker]

Sorry, I'm not hip to ugly politics, willful ignorance, open racism, anti-sex prudery, misogynistic drivel, anti-intellectuals or the crackpot conspiracy crew

Those terms have no meaning today because the left uses them on everyone they hate, whether the term is appropriate or not. If you are trying to teach us something or to make a point, you'll need to provide concrete examples. If there are examples that are public knowledge that would be great - we can then determine if the term was fairly or unfairly applied, but if it's not something in the public eye, that's OK too. Please give examples in today's gun culture of each of the following so we have an idea of what it is you are saying:

ugly politics
willful ignorance
open racism
anti-sex prudery
misogynistic drivel
anti-intellectuals
crackpot conspiracy crew

 

[NW Backpacker]

And, if I have to tell you that the fight above is not really about the dishes, then PM me and I'll explain why you're still single.

Did you wear your dishwashing gloves when you did those dishes?

conversation that could be summed up as "liberal bashing"

Something like "I'm sure getting tired of the Party of Gun Control threatening to take our guns."? That kind of bashing? Or something else?

Every American needs to feel just as comfy with the 2nd Amendment as they do the 1st.

You mean like those Americans on the left denying those on "the right" access to social media platforms, denying conservative speakers the right to speak on campus, deleting posts they don't agree with, getting them fired from their jobs, etc - those Americans? Or do you mean those Americans who allowed those on the left to burn, loot, murder across the entire USA for a year with no push-back; but got incensed and labeled sedition a protest at the Capitol by unarmed supporters of Mr. T, and now have the entire intelligence apparatus of the US Groobermint chasing down those Mr. T supporters? Those Americans?

The fact that "gun owners" are politically on "the right" and associated with the Republican Party alone is antithetical to Americanism.

So, the fact that 99% of the anti-gun activity comes from "the left" and the Party of Gun Control is irrelevant? Is that what "Americanism" is - being a leftist and promoting gun control? I had no idea.

I work for a tech giant that is most assuredly left leaning and whose corporate politics are anti-gun rights…and I take every co worker I can out shooting to teach them about their right to bear arms.

Excellent! I hope you get many converts!

 

[OldBroad44]

No.

 

[ravib123]

This question ("Do you think the toxicity of gun culture past and present is a roadblock to gun rights conversation?") was asked on the InRangeTV April Q&A session at the 25:27 mark*. Karl, obviously, gave his thoughts.

• What did you think of the host's reply?
• How would you answer the question?
• With this question in mind, what are some real world examples of things you've done or we could do to further preservation of our RKBA?

Cheers.

* Linked at the appropriate starting place here.

Honestly,

The video above, basically a write in letter, is a great example of what is wrong with gun culture.

Many here didn't likely watch it before responding that liberals are the problems or some nonsense.

The reality is gun culture is usually very toxic at the face value fundamental response normal folks (read not gun culture people) get when they try to engage.

You can see this in general questions about gun laws, gun safety when your kid visits a friend's house, and a good chuck of gun stores (where they talk down to you and treat you like the enemy unless you walk in packing heat).

Let me give you a great example:

I was having a fire pit conversation with a canadian and a hick.

We were talking about the founding of the county and the appetite for the 2nd amendment and how other amendments have changed, slavery, women can vote and own land (no longer property), etc.

The Canadian asked if we agreed that the 2nd amendment was based on the fact that the united states was too weak to have a standing army strong enough? In fact we had to keep fighting the british on every front for many years after independence, let alone the ongoing wars with the american indians during westward expansion.

The hick immediately started yelling about liberal and taking away guns. He took the classical gun culture stance, which I see regularly which is just attack to defend your rights.

Now this canadian wasn't event talking about modifying the current laws, nor did he think it possible given all the caselaw.

I agree that if written now we wouldn't have a second amendment and it's a throwback to a weak young country.

Now I like guns, and I am a true libertarian so I think pretty much everything should be legal but the vicious attack at anyone who even mentions the 2nd amendment without an AR in each hand is a problem for the gun freedoms that we all enjoy.

Extremism is a problem for legislational good will, both sides of the isle need to agree and they can both disagree with "crazy" whatever they deem that to be.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I will not argue the notion that there are folks out there who own guns , but who may not be the best example to shown to others...due to their temperament and such.

However , I will point out that it is been said to not judge a whole group by the actions of some within that group.
Why is this okay to do to gun owners...?
( In regards to the so called "toxicity of gun culture" )
Andy

 

[RVTECH]

Seems like this channel's gone downhill lately.

Are there any YT gun 'channels' that are uphill?

A while back I started reviewing quite a few of the YT gun related channels and aside from some of the documentary/edu style ones (forgotten weapons for example) I was not particularly impressed with most of them . What I saw mostly was inflated egos, repetitive information, poor speaking skills, many with limited knowledge who were trying to 'fake it till they make it' AND probably the WORST part was how several of them were criticizing or attacking each other!

In all fairness however I did see a couple that were not too bad. One I remember was Langley Outdoor academy. He is quick and to the point when it comes to reporting and clarifying gun issues in the news.

 

[CountryGent]

Are there any YT gun 'channels' that are uphill?

A while back I started reviewing quite a few of the YT gun related channels and aside from some of the documentary/edu style ones (forgotten weapons for example) I was not particularly impressed with most of them . What I saw mostly was inflated egos, repetitive information, poor speaking skills, many with limited knowledge who were trying to 'fake it till they make it' AND probably the WORST part was how several of them were criticizing or attacking each other!

That's what I've found too. The only firearms-related channel I watch religiously is Forgotten Weapons. Though I do catch InRangeTV at times.

 

[aflineman]

That is a walk away question. The person asking it already has an opinion, ans us NOT willing to LISTEN to any answer which may impinge upon said opinion.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I can only mansplain so I'm out.

 

[slimmer13]

Let's stop beating around the bush, and say what they mean when they say toxic "gun culture", they mean toxic white male culture/toxic masculinity/the patriarchy blah blah blah.

Postmodernist critical theory nonsense.

 

[Ridge Walker]

Are there any YT gun 'channels' that are uphill?

A while back I started reviewing quite a few of the YT gun related channels and aside from some of the documentary/edu style ones (forgotten weapons for example) I was not particularly impressed with most of them . What I saw mostly was inflated egos, repetitive information, poor speaking skills, many with limited knowledge who were trying to 'fake it till they make it' AND probably the WORST part was how several of them were criticizing or attacking each other!

In all fairness however I did see a couple that were not too bad. One I remember was Langley Outdoor academy. He is quick and to the point when it comes to reporting and clarifying gun issues in the news.

These guys have a YT channel but I try not to watch YT. They are how I found the ReloadersNetwork.com. Many here might enjoy them.

The Social Regressive - The Reloaders Network

The Social Regressive - The Social Regressive is a collection of outdoor adventures, gun tests, and gear reviews by a handful of Oklahoma boys. Our videos are

www.thereloadersnetwork.com

 

[Hueco]

Did you wear your dishwashing gloves when you did those dishes?

Nah, I find that the hot water helps keep the callouses from getting too bad. Look up "rock climber flapper" and you'll understand why I'm not a huge fan of big callouses. And, since we're now talking about me, the kitchen and the garage are my man-caves - we ever meet up around an exchange of food and you'll understand why.

Something like "I'm sure getting tired of the Party of Gun Control threatening to take our guns."? That kind of bashing? Or something else?

One gent was more polite, using the term leftist. Another, not so much. I vacated the immediate area and found the RO's to be great company.

You mean like those Americans on the left denying those on "the right" access to social media platforms, denying conservative speakers the right to speak on campus, deleting posts they don't agree with, getting them fired from their jobs, etc - those Americans? Or do you mean those Americans who allowed those on the left to burn, loot, murder across the entire USA for a year with no push-back; but got incensed and labeled sedition a protest at the Capitol by unarmed supporters of Mr. T, and now have the entire intelligence apparatus of the US Groobermint chasing down those Mr. T supporters? Those Americans?

Yes. Every American. I even think that those who are felons by way of non-violent offenses should have their gun, and voting, rights restored. So, until you are convicted in a court of law of a violent felony, then yes, you have your rights in tact - regardless of your ideology.

So, the fact that 99% of the anti-gun activity comes from "the left" and the Party of Gun Control is irrelevant? Is that what "Americanism" is - being a leftist and promoting gun control? I had no idea.

I'm not sure how you missed the meaning of my statement, so let me try again: The 2nd Amendment, like the 1st, is a natural right and one that all Americans should feel comfortable exercising, regardless of political affiliation. That "gun owners" are quickly also being boxed into a single political party is antithetical to getting every American to feel comfortable exercising this right.

We should be tearing down the walls that people have to learning about their gun rights, not creating new ones in an attempt to find some faux cohesion in the breast of a political party that will sell you out when the time is right. As I said, the only way the 2nd Amendment as you know it survives another hundred years is if it de-associates with partisanship and permeates the beliefs of every American...just like the 1st Amendment.

Excellent! I hope you get many converts!

Slowly, but surely.

 

[Benny762]

Its a loaded question
Toxicity? Give me a break.

Racism, homophobia, and misogyny are rampant in gun culture. Denying that only makes it more toxic and further alienates potential allies.