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In case you had doubts about what kind of country you live in...

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by slideglider, May 20, 2010.

  1. slideglider

    slideglider PDX Member

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  2. Decidion

    Decidion Washington county, Oregon Member

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    Holy crap...this is just ridiculous. The border guards here are way out of control and should be branded terrorists themselves for terrorizing this couple. Someone seriously needs to review policy and procedure here....and it all started because they couldn't name the exact store in a mall they were going to go shopping at????
     
  3. GRUNDEL

    GRUNDEL Washougal Area Active Member

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    Wow that went bad pretty fast. Kinda scary because I'm thinking if I was just going to Canada to do some shopping I may have acted the same way when the guard started in with the attitude:confused:
     
  4. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    That Customs agent shouldn't be allowed to work at McDonalds, let alone wear a uniform with the stars & stripes on the shoulder - but any person crossing an international border (including ours) can legally be treated like that. He could have done the same thing to a U.S. citizen, still without any grounds.

    The scariest part is that the Border Patrol and other federal LE agencies claim that the same rules apply everywhere within a 100 mile "security zone" along all of our national borders - even the maritime ones. (Even though the article refers to the previous administration, this practice is continuing.)

    At this point, there's little indication that this loophole is being used in a traditional law enforcement context, but the federal courts (to the best of my knowledge) have not set down any rules to limit it. They would if presented with an outrageous abuse of this policy, which is probably why the LEOs use it only in limited circumstances.

    No matter how rarely they're used, discretionary warrantless searches are completely unconstitutional. I could see this exception applying to areas within two or three miles of some land borders, but that's it.
     
  5. bugeye

    bugeye Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well one thing for sure I'm never, ever, going to the fashion mall in Niagra!
     
  6. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    It's no different going into Canada. The procedure is to fire questions rapidly at you to see if you trip up. The guy was combative so he received special attention, he shouldn't have escalated it into a problem. That's pretty much what anyone could expect at any boarder crossing in the world.
     
  7. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    If it truly bothers you to be questioned at the border , don't cross the border . Sounds like a setup to me , convenient that they were recording the conversation before it went south . When you are a guest in someones home , be polite , abide by their rules , act like a decent human being - if you feel that you are being treated unjustly , go home . These
    border agents sound like they are on a bit of a power trip , but at the same time , they aren't there to debate - they are there to keep undesirables out. It always bothers me to hear one part of any confrontation without being able to see what happened during it . Monday morning quarterbacks seldom make a mistake , cuz they already know how it all comes out .
     
  8. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Okay, but what if it's 60 miles within the border? Do you guys know how many major population centers are 100 miles of the border, including maritime borders?

    The officer had no reasonable suspicion to even bother him, the officer should have just told him to sit while they searched his car if they were so concerned.

    Questioning should come after.

    He's right, it's unnecessary. Especially in the beginning when he said, "You're in America now." and when the officer accused him of threats and cuffed him later on. Wow... Just, WOW.

    Seriously, pulling away is NOT assault, and he's NOT going to jail.
    This is disguising and sickening.
     
  9. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    No actually, reading some of these responses is HILARIOUS!

    I went to B.C before 9/11, but after the terrorist attempted to smuggle in the explosives planned for the "New Millennium" bombing.

    I was treated exactly the same way by the Canadian customs enforcement people. I wasn't near as confrontational as this guy started out to be and I was told to get out of my car, go in the office, and sit down and shut up until I was spoken to. I complied.

    Before they would let me in, I had to prove I was an American citizen, which was tough to do without a passport. Up until 9/11 no passport was needed to enter Canada for day trips. I had done so for as long as 12 days before.
    I had to show my SS card, Voter Reg card, ODL and give them my phone number in Oregon.
    At one point I made a semi sarcastic remark about being a threat, and THAT WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO!!!
    I apologized profusely, admitted I was being a smartazz and stated that it wouldn't happen again.
    I ended up having to give them the address where I was going and was told before I left the office that if they didn't have a record of me coming back through (leaving Canada) by a certain time THAT DAY, that they were going to send the police to that address. They also verified the ID of the person I was to visit, and that they indeed lived at that address.

    No part of this person's experience should be considered extraordinary, other than the way he started it when he was confrontational with the initial contact.
    There are random spot checks, and people caught up in them are going to get grilled for answers.
    Get over it.
    And by the way? I wasn't treated a whole lot better on my way back into the states than I was on the way into Canada.

    If you really want to gag, look around on the rest of that website "brasscheckTV."
    It doesn't get any more politically slanted than that place!
     
  10. GRUNDEL

    GRUNDEL Washougal Area Active Member

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    Next time he comes across the U.S. border he will do it the easy way and just sneak across illegally.

    Its much less of a hassle and if your Spanish is good you are guaranteed the "American Dream" :(
     
  11. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Theres a fallacious argument if I have ever heard one.
    Do my articles all have to come from CNN or Foxnews to not be slanted? Oh, wait..
     
  12. GRUNDEL

    GRUNDEL Washougal Area Active Member

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    For solid reporting and only factual information I get my news here.

    http://www.theonion.com/

    America's Finest News Source
     
  13. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    If you can't see the slant there Charles, then I feel sorry for you.

    I don't get Fox and I don't get CNN. But then again I don't read HuffPo, Salon, or MSNBC either.
     
  14. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Again, fallacy all around. When did I even imply there WASN'T a slant, I was directly stating that Fox and CNN both have significant bias, just as this site does. I think attacking the source and less the events clearly caught on tape is absolutely avoiding the point of this thread and my posts. Quit attacking the straw man.

    Why am I even explaining this to you? Don't feel sorry for me..

    :D
     
  15. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    The "facts clearly caught on tape " anything but . Biased or not , these people were not citizens of the US and as such aren't entitled to the same freedoms as citizens are . This seems like gotcha journalism to me and I would bet that there is more to this story than meets the eye .
     
  16. zeezee

    zeezee nowheresville Member

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    How many illegal mexicans pour over our souther border daily and they have rules like this in effect against AMERICAN citizens? Bull crap, ALL THOSE customs agents needs to be fired! I hope the couple filed a complaint with the US consulate.
     
  17. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've been stopped on I-8 in AZ. As I recall, I was only asked where I coming from, going to, and if I was a U.S. citizen. I made it through rather quickly as I kept my humor to myself. No jokes about hauling machines guns or coke. They also can inspect your vehicle at Hoover Dam. Great way to speed up highway that was already horridly slow.

    :thumbup: Unfortunately, some of the opinion column authors seem more grounded than those in "real" newspapers.
     
  18. Decidion

    Decidion Washington county, Oregon Member

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    Yeah, too bad they don't hold to this same standard on our southern border...

    I have a friend that is a Border Control agent at a border crossing in Eastern Washington and we were actually discussing crossing the border just last week. He told me that (at least at the crossing he works at) that the Canadians won't even require you to have a passport and that a driver's license still suffices. Apparently they are more interested in having you spend your American dollars there.

    When coming back, you might get slightly hassled for not having a passport, but as long as you have ID (driver's license), the US Border Control agents cannot legally prevent you from coming back into the US because you are a citizen.

    I found this all a bit strange, but he seemed really emphatic about that is how it works at the Danville, WA crossing.
     
  19. pdxjohann

    pdxjohann Portland near Tigard Member

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    They were treated like crap for no reason. But, then again the terrorists are sneaky really really sneaky. Remember what they did; plane 1 - tower 1 down it came nice and clean, plane 2 - tower 2 down it came nice and clean too, no plane at all - tower 7 down it came nice and clean. 2 planes/ 3 towers..... Fear the terrorists they are really sneaky. How did Sadam do that anywayz?
     
  20. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Here's what I dont understand.

    Instead of trying to "secure" a totally unfortified 5,000 mile border we share with a friendly nation that poses no threat whatsoever to us....why not have those same Customs agents on duty at Canadian airports and seaports?

    The "terrorists" we are supposedly guarding against aren't Canadians. If the concern is that the terrorists will fly or sail into Canada from Iran or Pakistan or wherever and then sneak across the border...then it would make a LOT more sense to keep them out of Canada in the first place than to try and stop them after they have already arrived.

    Canada doesnt share a border with any nation but us. That border is over 5,000 miles long, and anybody who wants to can sneak across. A would-be terrorist must first fly into a Canadian airport before sneaking over here, so that is where the security needs to be concentrated. It is stupid and pointless to hassle Canadian tourists and people who are only crossing the border to go shopping and spend money here.

    Canada and the US already have a joint agreement regarding the defense of Alaskan airspace by Canadian fighters. If our respective militaries can work together, cant our INS and Customs officials do the same thing? Both nations would benefit, and citizens of each nation would be free to cross the border to shop or visit without harassment or delays.