IMR4198 for .223

[kmk1012]

Kyle, it works wonderfully in my 18.5" with rifle gas system. WTF?

I use 52gr and 55gr boolitts. You???

I was trying some 62gr bullets, it worked wonderfully in my shorty but never could get it to cycle my rifle length. I've got a supply (like 50lbs) of these bullets and I'd like to get them loaded

 

[bbbass]

I was trying some 62gr bullets, it worked wonderfully in my shorty but never could get it to cycle my rifle length. I've got a supply (like 50lbs) of these bullets and I'd like to get them loaded

It's just weird. But from what I read above, it isn't a good powder for 62gr boolitts anyway.

Did I tell you I mashed the end of my trigger finger/joint in the car door before going shooting this last Sunday. It was not a good time. Lots of pain, swelling, discoloration, and some numbness... what a senior moment!!! Still hurts like a MFr! Looks like I may not get to shoot the IDPA opener in April.

 

[crossbow5]

I have used IMR 4198 with 52 and 55 grain bullets when reloading .223. This powder and the loads I worked up were accurate in my bolt action Savage model 10 and functioned well in my Ruger mini-14. The biggest problem was with how it metered out of the powder measure. The long slender grains of this powder do not meter well and some would always break (crunch). I do not know how it would work with heavier bullets. I decided to use H335, Varget, Win748 or Reloader 15 with my loads for .223.

 

[0GRE]

I'm slowly running out of powder and I'm not really sold on the CFE223 powder although I did have 3 pounds during this last round.
I have been doing so research into the IMR 4198 and I like the fact that I can load more rounds per pound... 18.3 to 19.5g with a Sierra 69g HPBT verses 25g of CFE223...

Anyways I'm searching for the pros and cons of this powder if you are so inclined to share it. Thanks in advance guys I appreciate it.

All,

Is it just me or is 4198 a very clean burning powder, in general? I load .458 SOCOM with it. The Southern Ballistic Research factory ammo was THE FOULEST I've shot. 20 rounds of that stuff blackened the magwell, my trigger finger, etc. My first and subsequent loads with 4198 were the complete opposite. 4198 is, by far, the cleanest burning powder I've come across.

I haven't tried it in .223 but am building a longer AR upper with a tighter twist so I'll keep it in mind.

 

[Elkman]

I bought an 8lb jug of 4198 a couple years ago to do some volume loading. It worked great in my AR pistol but for the life of me I could not get it to cycle my rifle length gas system 18" AR rifle. I ended up giving 7.5 pounds to a friend. I say gave because he never paid me, LOL

It sounds like you have friends like I do. Oh well we'll never be broke that way. LOL

 

[po18guy]

I have one of the ancient Ohaus Du-o-Measures and while it cuts a kernel here and there, it meters far better than, say 4350.

A little sidetrack, then back on the rails: The Ohaus Duo-Measure is an excellent measure with dual cavities; one for pistol/small rifle and a larger one for medium to large cartridges. The problem is that the powder hoppers had a design flaw which caused most of them to break. Replacements have not been available for decades. However, hoppers can be fairly easily made from soda/mineral water bottles. So, if you come across one at an irresistible price, it is easy to get them back into service.

 

[Aussie1]

I'm slowly running out of powder and I'm not really sold on the CFE223 powder although I did have 3 pounds during this last round.
I have been doing so research into the IMR 4198 and I like the fact that I can load more rounds per pound... 18.3 to 19.5g with a Sierra 69g HPBT verses 25g of CFE223...

Anyways I'm searching for the pros and cons of this powder if you are so inclined to share it. Thanks in advance guys I appreciate it.

Personally do not like fast burning powder with "heavier" projectiles. We have a terrific powder here in Australia for the .223. ADI AR2206H it burns cleanly with 26.5 grains in my Tikka and chronos at 3100fps using Magnetospeed. No pressure signs, Rem 7.5 primers have nice shape not flat, no extractor mark. This powder works very well right up to the 90gn pills giving pretty reasonable velocities without any over pressure signs. I don't know if any US dealers are selling the ADI range of powder but I know Winchester Olin do rebrand it with their own designation. ADI load the Aussie military ammo with AR2208, but in my particular rifle/chamber the AR2206H works better.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Thanks for all the replies, my goodness I didn't expect this many.
I do appreciate all the information that y'all have brought forward and it will help aid me in my decision.
I will probably save what CFE223 powder I have left (1 1/2 #s) for the heavier bullets and use the IMR4198 for 55g FMJ's for plinking.

Thanks people!!!!

 

[bbbass]

Thanks for all the replies, my goodness I didn't expect this many.
I do appreciate all the information that y'all have brought forward and it will help aid me in my decision.
I will probably save what CFE223 powder I have left (1 1/2 #s) for the heavier bullets and use the IMR4198 for 55g FMJ's for plinking.

Thanks people!!!!

Two questions Caveman:

1. What length and what twist is your barrel?

2. How're you feeling? Doin ok?

 

[gmerkt]

The word 'back then' was that 8208 and H-322

Don't know how true the following is but I read it somewhere. That the "new" IMR 8208 XBR was a failed batch of H-322, then someone decided they could re-name it and sell it as a separate, new product. Both made in Australia. Waste not, want not?

 

[gmerkt]

I bought an 8lb jug of 4198 a couple years ago to do some volume loading

Funny story. In 2001, my cousin gave me a 20 pound cardboard drum of H 4198. He'd bought it in 1974. 20 # was way more than I could use, so I divided it in half and sold 10 #. Loading .222 Rem., 223 Rem., and .45-70, just two weeks ago I used the last of my 10 #.

 

[Aussie1]

Don't know how true the following is but I read it somewhere. That the "new" IMR 8208 XBR was a failed batch of H-322, then someone decided they could re-name it and sell it as a separate, new product. Both made in Australia. Waste not, want not?

I have used the ADI Benchmark 8208 in my .204 Ruger where it works very well. Used it in .223 but not as good as the AR2206H. Main thing I do not like with these "log" type powders is the way they cause a catch in the action of the powder measure, this results in inconsistent throws. But changed to a Hornady electronic powder measure and fine tune with a trickler. One thing I forgot when responding to OP was that you blokes mainly use AR platform so powder requirements would be very different with the normally shorter barrel and gas system.

 

[Aussie1]

Funny story. In 2001, my cousin gave me a 20 pound cardboard drum of H 4198. He'd bought it in 1974. 20 # was way more than I could use, so I divided it in half and sold 10 #. Loading .222 Rem., 223 Rem., and .45-70, just two weeks ago I used the last of my 10 #.

Powder seems to keep pretty well. So do primers. I am still using rem 7.5 primers that I bought just before the big floods here in 1974 (AUD$10/1000) and tins of IMR4320 bought at the same time (price tags worn off). All work perfectly. Never really taken any special care precautions, they have travelled around the country with me and some of the places I lived saw summer temps of well over 100F and winter temps around 10F. The old IMR powders were commonly available over here then, but not now since new owners.

 

[Aussie1]

It's just weird. But from what I read above, it isn't a good powder for 62gr boolitts anyway.

Did I tell you I mashed the end of my trigger finger/joint in the car door before going shooting this last Sunday. It was not a good time. Lots of pain, swelling, discoloration, and some numbness... what a senior moment!!! Still hurts like a MFr! Looks like I may not get to shoot the IDPA opener in April.

OUCH! Hope it heals well and quickly. Probably lose the nail though. Have to practice using the "bird".

 

[gunnut38]

I use it in the .223 w/ a 50 gr. Bullet out of a heavy barreled varmiter. Shoots .300 groups at 100 yards. 3250 FPS.

 

[gmerkt]

tins of IMR4320 bought at the same t

This. About 30 years ago, I was in a gun shop that had a partial 8# caddy of 4320 which I bought. I'm still using some of it. This is a kinda neglected IMR powder. I've gotten some really good groups using it in .223 Rem. with 55 gr. bullets. Works well in gas guns or bolt actions in that caliber. It may also be used to load .30-06 for M1 Rifle but it's as slow as you'd want to go with that gas design. When we had the last big powder famine, 4320 was one of the few still on the shelves. I don't know about now. It's one of if not the single longest in production of the IMR line. Back to DuPont days. I don't know why it isn't more popular; it's right there next to Varget in burn rate.

 

[Aussie1]

This. About 30 years ago, I was in a gun shop that had a partial 8# caddy of 4320 which I bought. I'm still using some of it. This is a kinda neglected IMR powder. I've gotten some really good groups using it in .223 Rem. with 55 gr. bullets. Works well in gas guns or bolt actions in that caliber. It may also be used to load .30-06 for M1 Rifle but it's as slow as you'd want to go with that gas design. When we had the last big powder famine, 4320 was one of the few still on the shelves. I don't know about now. It's one of if not the single longest in production of the IMR line. Back to DuPont days. I don't know why it isn't more popular; it's right there next to Varget in burn rate.

I have not used the new product. DuPont was a good product all round. I loaded various DuPont powders in everything from a 32.20 up to 30.06. Only have about 1/4lb of the 4320 left from way back. But a lot of good memories of the good results DuPont gave. It was the "go to" powder back then, and of course it was available. Funny how things change. Back in the 1960/70 we were restricted to a few projectiles from a few makers, but had plenty of good powder, now we have more projectiles from more makers than we have good powder. To be honest I have a bit of a shudder when I open the doors on my powder cabinet. Always looking for the best group has lured me into buying so much. It would be good if manufacturers could supply smaller "sampling" packs instead of us having to buy a whole pound of something that does not fit the bill. Same with projectiles. I believe you have a manufacturer of projectiles in the US that does sell "sampling" packs.

 

[gmerkt]

To be honest I have a bit of a shudder when I open the doors on my powder cabinet. Always looking for the best group has lured me into buying so much. It would be good if manufacturers could supply smaller "sampling" packs instead of us having to buy a whole pound of something that does not fit the bill. Same with projectiles. I believe you have a manufacturer of projectiles in the US that does sell "sampling" packs

I've had something of the same situation, especially with pistol powders. Having too many different chamberings has lead to this. Also a desire to try the latest product. These days, I'm coming to the realization that I don't need enough supplies to last me until age 150. So I've been in a kind of retrenchment mode. For some time, I've been concentrating on a fairly narrow range of rifle chamberings which has eased the problem a bit as to variety if not quantity, the latter of which I'm just lately working on.

The pistol powders, this very day I simplified things greatly by letting go of ten different pistol powders. Eight partials, two "fulls." Sometimes progress comes slowly, but an occasional big burst helps.

I agree, sample packs as some bullet manufacturers offer seem to make sense as to powder. But powder has a hazardous property that bare bullets lack, so I imagine this may be the primary obstacle.

Powder manufacturers are in business to make money, of course. But have you ever noticed that pistol powders typically run about 2/3 the price of rifle powders? I smell an issue of opportunism in this pricing. That is, rifle powder gets used up more quickly because it usually is dispensed in larger charges. Much larger. Pistol charges are usually much smaller. So you don't go through a can near as fast. I see opportunistic higher pricing on rifle powder because it turns over faster, maybe my logic is faulty here, I don't know. I wonder, does it cost more to manufacture rifle powders? Ball powder, for example, I doubt it. Because it seems the process would be the same for both pistol and rifle ball powders. These days, some of the pricing may have to do with country of origin.

The modern IMR powders that you don't get in Oz, I find these are cleaner burning than the older formulations.

 

[kmk1012]

It's just weird. But from what I read above, it isn't a good powder for 62gr boolitts anyway.

Did I tell you I mashed the end of my trigger finger/joint in the car door before going shooting this last Sunday. It was not a good time. Lots of pain, swelling, discoloration, and some numbness... what a senior moment!!! Still hurts like a MFr! Looks like I may not get to shoot the IDPA opener in April.

Dang, that's too bad, hope it fells better soon. At the time I was loading 55gr when I bought the powder. Then I came across close to 16k of these bullets for helping a friend for a day. So that's what I loaded. I've still got enough of them to make my doctors angry for lifting them (close to 45 pound left)! Guess what I'm doing this weekend? Building my right arm muscle without watching, LOL

 

[Caveman Jim]

Two questions Caveman:

1. What length and what twist is your barrel?

2. How're you feeling? Doin ok?

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest today out in the shop.

I'm doing ok, can't complain, nobody would listen.

I have 2) 16 inch 1/8 twist AR's and a 7 1/2" 5.56 pistol so trying to figure out loads for them all
The Bushmaster eats anything I feed it so really want to see what my two builds will do.