Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

IMR 4831 Unopened Short Weight

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by roknHS, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    32
    I've been picking up 4831 when I can find it....Walmart, Blacksheep, White Elephant or where ever. I now have five 1lb. containers......all seals are intact......unopened. I put some new shelves in the shop and as I moved powder to the new shelf, I thought I noticed a difference in the weight of the 4831 containers. I got out the postal scale and weighed all five containers of 4831. Only one weighed 1lb 2.2oz. The other four were between 13.3 and 14.4 ounces. I double checked to make sure the seals were intact........they are. I also checked some 4064, 4350, H110 and they all weighed 1lb. 2.2 oz. It just seems to be the IMR 4831.
    Has anybody else checked their powder to see if you are getting a full pound? The new plastic jug should weigh 1lb. 2.2oz. when it has a pound of powder in it.
    I know I've been had...........wonder how many others?
     
  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,790
    Likes Received:
    7,074
    What's it say on the can? Some powders are sold in increments other than a pound.
     
  3. bullshot

    bullshot Thurston ,WA Member

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    32
    Hey you must have got a can of the Holder blend, Just full of extra fluff and Bull LOL
     
    orygun and (deleted member) like this.
  4. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    32
    The container says "Net Wt. 1lb., 464 grams".

    Spose to be a pound in those jugs.........don't know what's going on but, I'll be checking from now on.
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    High Speed packaging trying to keep up.
     
  6. Grommit327

    Grommit327 Buckley Active Member

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    74
    I would give a call to Hodgdon/IMR. They should be able to help you as long as they are still sealed.
     
  7. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    32
    Hmmmm..........couldn't hurt, I might give them a call to see if they had packaging issues like Mark W. suggested.
     
  8. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    That's a nice thought but I doubt it. This is not 1970 anymore. Modern machinery is much more precise than that. I suspect short pack intentionally. I see this more and more. "Round it up"(way up).
    Call them out, send photos of scales and comparisons. Report back.
     
  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,790
    Likes Received:
    7,074
    Class action lawsuit!

    Actually, I'm now going to keep my eyes on this stuff better.
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    So your intentional precise short pack falls between 13.3 and 14.4 ounces. that's some precise modern machinery.
     
  11. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,790
    Likes Received:
    7,074
    I think he said they should weigh 18.2oz in the jug and they don't.. that's closer to four ounces short each. That'd add up over millions of pounds.

    One of the biggest scams ever is a group of guys wrote a program to skim/round up partials of x regarding the penny. nevermind
     
    jimwsea and (deleted member) like this.
  12. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    I don't know if this was serious or not but YES!, Is the short answer.

    Lets start with 13.3 is not a pound, 14.4 is not either.... Long ways off especially when you subtract the weight of the package. And yes the machinery used in a GUN POWDER manufacturing/packaging facility I would guess to be accurate to +/- .1 grains or OZ's. There are big fancy computers involved even scales (should be state/BATF(?) certified). Then double checked when packaged.
    I am not okay with buying a pound of a product and 11.1 oz. You and others might be and if this is so, I'd love to sell you some gold and or silver.

    Now...Some of this is assumption from my career experience in production not exactly like gun powder but just as precise with much less valuable and important stuff. Maybe IMR has someone with a kitchen type measuring cup dumping the powder in to jugs. If the latter I would rethink using there products.

    Just my two cents.
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    My point was that your saying the equipment is precise OK fine then why is the equipment throwing such a wide range of weight. Cause that sure doesn't sound precise to me.
     
  14. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    That's a good point and I didn't think of it that way. I'd suspect they (the light cans) came from different batches with inaccurate set points. Maybe there was a huge calibration issue that should have been caught at the end of the production line before shipping or it could very well have been "let slide". Either way I would think at least one person knew.
     
  15. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    32
    I sent an e-mail to IMR Hodgdon to let them know about the short weight problem. I'll let you all know if I get a response and what the explanation is. I'm sure someone in production knows they have or had a problem with final weights on the 4831.
    I've got a buddy that works at ATK/speer/CCI/Savage and who knows what else they own. He works on the case manufacturing side of things. He has told me about off spec products being ignored in todays production environment that would never have made it into the market before this excessive demand craze. ATK knows they can ship the stuff and sell it no problem so, quality control has been lax. The stuff he tells me about is cosmetics more than any serious quality issue. That being said, I was loading some .300 WSM for a friend. We were using new unprimed brass he had purchased. I couldn't find a case that didn't have a dented neck and throat. I had to run them through a die to make sure the throat was round before we could seat a bullet. That is just an example of a product that probably shouldn't have made it into the retail store but, it did.
     
  16. CLT65

    CLT65 Yamhill County Active Member

    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    198
    Are you sure they are truly factory sealed, and did you get all the light ones at the same place?

    One could wonder if there was some skimming going on at a gun shop. Sometimes factory seals can be replaced to look sealed.

    If you got them at different places then that's highly unlikely, of course.
     
    Certaindeaf and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,790
    Likes Received:
    7,074
    Most all my Alliant "seals" come off when you undo the cap.. there's no way to know (to me, save weighing) if they came that way. I'd much prefer a plastic shrinkwrap over the cap and neck and then I'd know an intermediary didn't jack with it.
    Jeez, they tamper proof socks (well, almost) these days and with all the tree-hugging gun-grabbing psychos out there, perhaps with a mind of swapping out some Bullseye for some Retumbo (you know what I mean), you'd think better measures would be incorporated.
     
  18. roknHS

    roknHS Idaho Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    32
    No, they didn't come from the same retailer. I look for supplies at different stores and pick up what I can, where I can.
    All the seals seem to be intact. I've had seals come loose when I open the cap for the first time, these all look to be stuck down all the way around.
     
  19. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer SE Washington state Active Member

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    120
    Send a letter to President Obama and Attorney General Holder. I am sure they can come up with a plan to make certain you never buy a short pound of gunpowder ever again! ;)
     
  20. kmk1012

    kmk1012 Mid Valley Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    44
    The government would have to create a whole new branch to investigate thoroughly before announcing that it saved the individual taxpayer $6.00 buy spending $1,000,000!