I'm Curious "THE UN ARMS TREATY" ???

[Mark W.]

For weeks now people been going on about the UN Arms treaty that may or may not get signed. And all the doom and gloom it can cause for firearms owners in the USA.


HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS SO CALLED TREATY?


I sure haven't I have read heard and seen all kinds of experts tell me what is in it but to the best of my knowledge not a single one of those experts has seen the thing.

The Arms Trade Treaty is the name of a controversial potential multilateral treaty that would regulate the international trade in conventional weapons. The treaty will be negotiated at a global conference under the auspices of the United Nations from July 2 – 27, 2012 in New York.

SO if I read that from Wiki correctly the thing hasn't even been argued about in the UN.

Not saying it can't do Gun owners here in the USA harm. Just having a hard time with the idea its not even an actual treaty yet.

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[whiskeybill]

I don't think we're going to see a rough draft or a final treaty available for public scrutiny. What kind of transparency can we expect from government anymore? The tragic part of this so called "treaty" is that the Senate won't even get to vote on it for ratification. Under "rules" of the Vienna Convention, if the appointed representative of the US signs onto an international treaty, and if the President does not act one way or the other, or if the Senate does not bring it to a vote, then the treaty is considered legal and binding to the signatory nation. Imagine that. One political party wielding so much power over the sovriegnty of a nation. Domestic legislation passed that never gets public scrutiny. International treaties entered into without the advise and consent of the Senate. The President not even so much as bragging up his accomplishment. The press not even so much as asking him what he thinks of the treaty or our signing onto it. Nope, you are looking at the "Fundamental transformation of America" my friend.

 

[timac]

I don't think they could backdoor the UN Arms treaty by way of the Vienna Convention, as we never ratified the Convention.

 

[RVTECH]

A couple weeks ago one of the news people on FOX gave a detailed explanation of it (don't ask me to remember) but I recall it sounding very dirty, sneaky and clandestine and above all - complicated. One would have to be an expert in some sort of international law, and politics to understand it. I got confused just listening to it.

 

[Key-Hay]

Over half the world ignores what the UN comes up with anyway.

 

[DMax]

A couple weeks ago one of the news people on FOX gave a detailed explanation of it (don't ask me to remember) but I recall it sounding very dirty, sneaky and clandestine and above all - complicated. One would have to be an expert in some sort of international law, and politics to understand it. I got confused just listening to it.

Shocking with these radical unamerican whitehouse. Just shocking But remember the left side always says you are just fear mongering, what has this prez done to get rid of your 2A rights. We will see who is crying to there momma when its over.

 

[Kevatc]

Shocking with these radical unamerican whitehouse. Just shocking But remember the left side always says you are just fear mongering, what has this prez done to get rid of your 2A rights. We will see who is crying to there momma when its over.

It is humorous in a very sad way to see the automatic knee jerk reactionary stuff like "radical unamerican whitehouse". Frankly, I am embarrassed for you. Let's remember the current administration expanded gun rights to include national parks. When the Ft. Hood and Gabby Giffords shootings occured he did nothing to use those situations for a gun control policy.

I remember first hearing about this UN International Arms Treaty back during the waning days of the Bush administration. So far absolutely nothing has been done by this country in so far as this issue goes. As someone else pointed out it hasn't even been discussed at the UN yet to the point of it being any kind of issue.

One thing I've noted after frequenting a half dozen or more gun forums over the past 10 years is that gun owners tend to be their own worst enemy when it comes to fear mongering. The sky is not falling.

 

[DMax]

It is humorous in a very sad way to see the automatic knee jerk reactionary stuff like "radical unamerican whitehouse". Frankly, I am embarrassed for you. Let's remember the current administration expanded gun rights to include national parks. When the Ft. Hood and Gabby Giffords shootings occured he did nothing to use those situations for a gun control policy.

I remember first hearing about this UN International Arms Treaty back during the waning days of the Bush administration. So far absolutely nothing has been done by this country in so far as this issue goes. As someone else pointed out it hasn't even been discussed at the UN yet to the point of it being any kind of issue.

One thing I've noted after frequenting a half dozen or more gun forums over the past 10 years is that gun owners tend to be their own worst enemy when it comes to fear mongering. The sky is not falling.

Frankly I am embarrassed by you for pretending 2A rights

 

[deen_ad]

Here's what is published by High Noon Holsters:

Disinformation Continues as U.N. Arms Treaty Takes Shape

Posted on July 20, 2012
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In New York this week, the U.N. Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty continued trying to draft a treaty to impose worldwide controls on small arms, including civilian-owned firearms.

The NRA has made clear its opposition to any treaty that includes civilian firearms, and continues to note that a majority of the United States Senate stands with American gun owners in opposition to such a treaty. We have led the effort to mobilize opposition to the treaty in Congress, and not only a bipartisan majority of the U.S. Senate, but also 130 House members, have voiced strong opposition to the treaty. Ignoring that reality, U.N. conferees are working to regulate not only civilian small arms, but also ammunition and firearm parts.

Anti-gun treaty proponents continue to mislead the public, claiming the treaty would have no impact on American gun owners. That's a bald-faced lie.

For example, the most recent draft treaty includes import/export controls that would require officials in an importing country to collect information on the "end user" of a firearm, keep the information for 20 years, and provide the information to the country from which the gun was exported. In other words, if you bought a Beretta shotgun, you would be an "end user" and the U.S. government would have to keep a record of you and notify the Italian government about your purchase. That is gun registration. If the U.S. refuses to implement this data collection on law-abiding American gun owners, other nations might be required to ban the export of firearms to the U.S.

And even if the U.S. never ratifies--or even signs--the treaty, many other nations will. The cost of complying with the treaty would drive up the price of imported firearms and probably force some companies to take their products off the U.S. market.

That's not all. This week, the delegates focused on an endless series of drafts that would either ban exportation or require states to consider the risk of exporting, if the arms could be used to commit crime, or could "be diverted to unauthorized end users" or "the illicit market." Exports could also be blocked if they would "support" or "encourage" terrorist acts or "provoke, prolong or aggravate acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace," or could be used in "gender-based violence" or to inflict "human suffering." Anti-gun activists here and abroad have long claimed that gun ownership in general does all of these things, so any of these provisions could be abused by foreign governments to shut off exports to law-abiding Americans.

The NRA has spent nearly 20 years lobbying against U.N. attacks on civilian firearms ownership. As a U.N.-recognized NGO (non-governmental organization) we have attended meetings and conferences and we have spoken out directly at the U.N. about our unfailing opposition to any treaty that infringes on the Second Amendment rights of American citizens.

As the conference completes drafting the treaty, the NRA will continue to gather information on what provisions are included, and will work with our allies in the international community as well as Congress to oppose adoption of any anti-gun treaty or any other international restriction on our constitutional freedoms.

Looks like it comes direct from the NRA website which has won awards for accurate reporting BTW.

 

[deen_ad]

The treaty will never be ratified by our Senate.
But it sure does expose that Socialist leaning Communist we have in the White House who's real anti-gun ideology is very obvious.

Doesn't matter, other countries will ratify it which could cut off imported weapons from outside the US.

 

[Kaniffy117]

Even if it does cut off imported weapons, couldn't they set up shop here in the US to possibly by pass it? Build factories, shops, and build the product here? Thats probably a long shot though if even possible at all...

 

[Mark W.]

Doesn't matter, other countries will ratify it which could cut off imported weapons from outside the US.

I have a question based on this statement. Lets say Italy signes this treaty and as a result of our not signing it the treaty puts some restriction that stops Italy from exporting their firearms to the USA. Where are:

Abbiatico & Salvinelli
Amerigo Cosmi
Antonio Zoli
Armeria Cortesi
Armeria Tucci
Armi Art
Armi Salvinelli
Benelli Armi, s.p.a.
Beretta.it
Breda Fucili
Caesar Guerin
Chiappa Firearms
Davide Pedersoli & C.
Effebi, snc.
Fabarm
Fabbri
Fabbrica Armi Val Susa
F A I R
Falco
Famars di Abbiatico and Salvinelli
Fausti Stefano, s.r.l.
Ferlib fine firearms
F.lli Poli Armi
F.lli Rizzini gun factory
Franchi
Fratelli Gamba Armi
Investarm, s.p.a.
Luciano Bosis
Mauro Battaglia
Pedersoli
Perazzi Armi, s.r.l.
Perugini e Visini
Piotti Fratelli s.n.c
Redolfi Fratelli, s.n.c.
Renato Gamba
Rizzini & Tanfoglio, s.r.l.
Rizzini snc di Rizzini B. & C.
Sabatti, s.r.l.
Silma
Tanfoglio
Uberti
Vincenzo Bernardelli
W. R. Saleri di Saleri William & C
Zanardini arms

Going to be selling their firearms?

How about all the other companies that the USA is their main market?

I have a hard time seeing many of these countries sitting back and watching the UN cut off a major export market.

 

[Swedish K]

Being that the U.S. funds approximately 1/4 of the budget for the U.N. all we need to do is demand that the U.S. not fund the U.N. and vote to back it up - without U.S. backing the U.N. is an utter failure.

Other things to consider - the Supreme Court has in the past upheld that no treaty shall override the constitution. Any portion of a treaty that is in violation of the constitution is not enforceable in the U.S. and shall not be complied with.

I agree that firearms companies in other countries would have to open up shop here in the U.S. to stay alive if the treaty were to limit their sales and many of them currently have a foot in the door. There are 3 advantages if this happens - first - more jobs in the U.S., second it would circumvent the treaty, and third - as the firearms would be manufactured here in the U.S. you wouldn't have to worry about import restrictions or 922R compliance issues.

 

[Redcap]

 

[Swedish K]

Redcap -
I have this fine U.N. issued rifle - never been fired, only dropped once!

 

[GOG]

The Socialist in Chief will be signing the treaty on the 27th. Remember that he said that he was working on gun control "under the radar". If he's reelected, you can count on serious gun control. His political and moral dogma demands an unarmed opposition.

 

[fd15k]

The Socialist in Chief will be signing the treaty on the 27th. Remember that he said that he was working on gun control "under the radar". If he's reelected, you can count on serious gun control. His political and moral dogma demands an unarmed opposition.

The president decides whether to recognize new nations and new governments, and negotiates treaties with other nations, which become binding on the United States when approved by two-thirds vote of the Senate.

President of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Patriots are not revolutionaries trying to overthrow the government of the United States.
Patriots are Counter-Revolutionaries trying to prevent the government from overthrowing the Constitution.

Before you declare the threat to the Constitution, and appoint yourself as its protector, perhaps you should understand first what and how it does.

 

[GOG]

President of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Before you declare the threat to the Constitution, and appoint yourself as its protector, perhaps you should understand first what and how it does.

What makes you believe that the Socialist in Chief will adhere to the Constitution? He hasn't yet.

 

[fd15k]

What makes you believe that the Socialist in Chief will adhere to the Constitution? He hasn't yet.

What does enable presidential powers ? Will of God ? Magic ? If one declares himself a king tomorrow, will you bow to him ?

 

[Kevatc]

The Socialist in Chief will be signing the treaty on the 27th. Remember that he said that he was working on gun control "under the radar". If he's reelected, you can count on serious gun control. His political and moral dogma demands an unarmed opposition.

Holy moly guy. I only have one word for you: Xanax.