If you hunt elk...

[100$bill]

to mjbskwim

I do not like your sugestion. If you are serious about "gut shot" of a wild animal, that is quite a statement. Not to mention it leaves a wild wolf alive, hurt and angry. Please reconsider your post.

MM

 

[Grizzly_A]

I imagine you are referring to this post, as it clearly promotes illegal activities:

Yup, keep it legal. Assumptions about "tendencies" don't make friends either.
We've all made comments during times of emotion that if carried out would be illegal, but would not act on those comments in reality.

 

[HotRod61]

The last thing I'm going to say on this subject is this.

A land owner should be able to protect his property.

 

[orygun]

I'm not sure that I know how to respond to some of the posts without getting long winded. (just found out that without is one word)
But the wolves are a threat to my friends and other ranchers in eastern Oregon. (always knew it wasn't wolfs)
I don't suggest that a person really gut shoot a wolf so it can run away and die a painful death. But if the wolves were threatening your means of life and the federal federal regulations stood in your way, what would you do?
I believe that the the term Shoot, Shovel and Shut up originated in eastern Oregon. Some of you might not find it "sporting", but the people that are affected by the re-introduction of these wolves aren't too concerned about what you think.

 

[juandelaselva]

.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Because something is illegal, it does not necessarily follow that it is morally wrong. A man has a right to protect his livelihood and his family. His survival trumps what you think is environmentally desirable.

 

[Redcap]

to mjbskwim

I do not like your sugestion. If you are serious about "gut shot" of a wild animal, that is quite a statement. Not to mention it leaves a wild wolf alive, hurt and angry. Please reconsider your post.

MM

It is a fine suggestion. I take care of daytime coyotes that way if they are moving too fast to get a kill shot.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Mother Nature has no "bad" or "good" either, just animals doing what they do.

Precisely why humans shouldn't mess with the natural balance (like importing non-native species to "save" a similar species). I had a conservation class in college which I expected to be fairly "hippy" about saving this or that. To my surprise the prof. (who was pro-hunting and sustainable yield logging) said humans need to get their hands out of the business of meddling with such things because we aren't smart enough to forsee all the consequences and invariably unintended consequenses result.

 

[JGRuby]

Men move to where there are wild wolves that are native to an area - men kill off the wolves because they are competitors - families of these same men now complain because the wolf that use to be there is now being reintroduced back to where they originally were native. These same men are bubbleguming because they have to compete against a natural competitor. (call them a mckenzie wolf, a grey wolf or a timber wolf they are all the same specieis gentically, yes some grow bigger because of the availabilty of food ). Wether people like it or not as of today in many places they are a protected species and it is illegal to kill them.

Jeesh - maybe these men and families should have settled where they did not have to compete against an apex predator or learned to live wth them. I do not feel sympathy for the ranchers or those that live in the same area that was native to the wolves any more than I feel sorry for a person building a mansion on a steep slope only to see it wash away when the rains come. Mankind has always tried to control nature - I suspect that we will find that by destroying nature mankind will destroy himself.

Flame on.

James Ruby

 

[Jamie6.5]

I try very hard not to "flame" the willfully ignorant.
We have been over this ground with you before JGR.

You refuse to see the truth concerning the various sub-species of wolves, despite the fact you have been shown the light.

 

[JGRuby]

Grey Wolf - Grey Wolves are the largest wild member of the dog family. They have a body length between 1 and 1.5 m (3.25 - 5 ft), a tail length between 30 and 51 cms (1 - 1.75 ft) and they weigh between 16 and 60 kgs (35 - 130 lbs). Canis lupus

Mackenzie Valley Wolf - They are also known as the Rocky Mountain Wolf, Alaskan Timber Wolf or Canadian Timber Wolf. They can be found in Alaska, the Northern Rockies, western and central Canada and they were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho in 1995 Canis lupus occidentalis

They are both Grey wolves as I have always stated as noted by the Canis Lupis in there zoological names, one is simply a subspecies.

I will concede one is larger than the other and feel that you are showing ignorance Jamie

James Ruby

 

[Jamie6.5]

Yeah, the Eastern Brook Trout is a member of the sub-species char in the trout family.
The ODFW has stated unequivocally that they are an invasive species that is damaging to the indigenous cold water trout like the cutthroat and the rainbow, and WANT THEM ERADICATED.
So, wildlife managers recognize sub-species, and their potential for adverse impacts, but you don't,...

Way to trump the facts there JG!

Like I said, we've been over this ground before, and you remain willfully ignorant of the facts.
There is NO HOPE for you JG.
All I can give you is facts, and precedents, but you refuse to believe those while spouting the kool-aide you've been fed.
To the detriment of us all.

Bye.

 

[Sling Blade]

It is a fine suggestion. I take care of daytime coyotes that way if they are moving too fast to get a kill shot.

Ruh-rho. You just fell off my Christmas card list.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone could purposely wound an animal. I can see where you hate coyotes and wolves, but to do that to any living creature is sadistic.

 

[Redcap]

Ruh-rho. You just fell off my Christmas card list.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone could purposely wound an animal. I can see where you hate coyotes and wolves, but to do that to any living creature is sadistic.

Hey, I would rather kill them outright and be done with it. That way I eliminate the predator and get a pelt as well. But if they are close enough for me to see them, that means they are close enough to make a mess out of my goats, pigs or chickens...and I'm going to put lead in them, regardless of if I can seal the deal or not.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

JGR, my family has been where they are in Oregon since about 1850. They own their land and have for generations. They had no complaints about competing with wolves for the first 140 years. They were quite successful at it. Now the protected wolves are making their land worthless and ending their way of life. I understand that those facts mean nothing to you and your wolf loving pals. What happens when you back a wolf into a corner? It's about the same thing that happens with a man when you back him into a corner, except a man is more dangerous. We'll see what happens. Meanwhile, with an attitude like yours, don't come knocking on the door asking to hunt private property.

 

[JGRuby]

Kahr and trout are two different species - none the less two differenet genus.

Brook Trout
Kingdom Animalia
Phylum Vertebrata
Class Osteichythes
Order Salmoniformes
Family Salmonidae
Genus Salvelinus
Species fontinalis

where as a real trout like a Raibow is identified as
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Actinopterygii
Subclass: Neopterygii
Infraclass: Teleostei
Order: Salmoniformes
Family: Salmonidae
Genus: Oncorhynchus
Species: O. mykiss


So exactly jamie whats your point - I thnk you are drinking your own cool aid.

James Ruby


They are not a member of the trout family as idnentified by people smarter than myself

 

[JGRuby]

ZigZagZeke - I have deleted my previous reply as to me it was disrespectful. To live in one place for 160 years is pretty remarkable now days. I ask who killed the wolf population off if it wasnt the racnchers, farmers and trappers in the area. I would also state that I feel the ODFW was wrong to bring in non native sub species of wolf ( the point of wether they are grey wolf or not is mute to me ) but i do feel that they are right in reintroducing the wolf to Oregon. I do not want to see any ranchers lose thier property or thier livestock. Hve you ranchers ever gotten together to propose a method of reintroduction. The battle lines have been drawn - the wolf is simply the spotted owl of this new century so far. In short I am just tired of people destroying what is left of nature for personal gain.

James Ruby

 

[Jamie6.5]

Nice try JG

Species
The name trout is commonly used for some species in three of the seven genera in the subfamily Salmoninae: Salmo, Atlantic species; Oncorhynchus, Pacific species; and Salvelinus, which includes fish also sometimes called char or charr. Fish referred to as trout include:<SNIP>

As are lake trout and bull trout, but ODFW doesn't want them eradicated.
Buy a clue. You're picking fly poop out of pepper here.

So, if your claim that they are all the same holds water, maybe you'd like to show us all how that makes it possible for them to be listed as an endangered species, as that means there are tens of thousands continent-wide.
You can't have it both ways.


This is where you lost the argument last time.
If you have feelings for the wolf, okay, state it that way.

But you are here trying to make a logical argument because of how you feel.

That makes for lousy wildlife management policy, and as shown in the OP, is killing the ranchers of eastern Oregon by a death of a thousand cuts.

 

[iusmc2002]

Ruh-rho. You just fell off my Christmas card list.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone could purposely wound an animal. I can see where you hate coyotes and wolves, but to do that to any living creature is sadistic.

It's "uh-oh" there, Captain Correction

As in "Uh-oh BurgandyHat, you aren't going to get a Christmas card from someone you don't know, nor probably care for"

 

[iusmc2002]

Nice try JG

As are lake trout and bull trout, but ODFW doesn't want them eradicated.
Buy a clue. You're picking fly poop out of pepper here.

So, if your claim that they are all the same holds water, maybe you'd like to show us all how that makes it possible for them to be listed as an endangered species, as that means there are tens of thousands continent-wide.
You can't have it both ways.


This is where you lost the argument last time.
If you have feelings for the wolf, okay, state it that way.

But you are here trying to make a logical argument because of how you feel.

That makes for lousy wildlife management policy, and as shown in the OP, is killing the ranchers of eastern Oregon by a death of a thousand cuts.

Save yourself the trouble Jaime. Just rub a cheese grater over your junk for a bit, it's less painful than "debating" with JGRuby