JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Messages
49
Reactions
4
I recently became aware of and joined an organization known as the Armed Citizens Defense Network whose board members include Massad Ayoob and Marty/Gila Hayes of the Seattle Firearms Academy. If you worry about the aftermath of a shooting incident and what may happen to you and your family, this web site is well worth researching, if not than I'll assume you have either a lot of $$ and high priced attornies for friends. Seriouslly, this is something that will hit home. If this has already been posted then I apologize but a search turned up nothing. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Let me try. I think this is what we are trying to link.

Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network, LLC


That worked. Looks very similar to PrePaid Legal Services of which I am a member, but not for much longer.

After 10 years of membership it is my opinion that these HMO type legal plans are crap. Attorneys spend the least amount of time possible on your issue, etc.

IMO, you're better off just hiring an attorney on an as-needed basis.
 
I used to use a prepaid legal service also which I had as part of union benefits and it saved me quite a bit of $$. Two divorces didn't cost me a cent and quite a bit of misc legal paperwork like wills, etc. Some are bad and others aren't, what I like about the one posted is it's totally for self defense shootings and every little bit counts in todays economy!! There is also a writeup about it in the current isue of Combat Handguns. Thanks to whoever corrected the link!
 
I kinda agree with 1/2 nutz.

Looks from the outside very much like prepaid legal.
Somebody once told me that hiring an attorney or giving them their retainer ahead of time could be seen as premeditation...... I'll stick with a number in my wallet.
 
Funny how defending ones self,family and propertys legality depends on who is in office. You would think laws written would hold true all the time but it seems to depend on who is in office and their agenda as to if you will be procecuted or let go.

jj
 
That worked. Looks very similar to PrePaid Legal Services of which I am a member, but not for much longer.

After 10 years of membership it is my opinion that these HMO type legal plans are crap. Attorneys spend the least amount of time possible on your issue, etc.

IMO, you're better off just hiring an attorney on an as-needed basis.

Yep, because attorneys who sign up for these plans are forced to bill at something like half their normal rate for clients that the plans refer to them. Some of them treat plan members poorly. If they have other clients that they can bill out at their normal rate, there's no incentive for them to do anything for you. If they don't have other clients, they're either bad lawyers or unhappy/unlucky businesspeople. Others are just fine, as a previous poster mentioned. They're happy to take work at a reduced rate because a. it's still an ample rate and b. word of mouth from happy clients is the best marketing tool they have.

Legal services plans are set up like dental or vision plans, in that they provide a limited amount of discount services to members - not like homeowners or car insurance, which spread risk around. They can be a good deal if somebody else is paying for them, but aren't generally a great deal for an individual.


This "Legal Defense Network" is not like any of those things. It's more like emergency evacuation insurance for travelers: it might not seem very expensive, but it's a much worse deal than, say, car insurance because of the extremely low likelihood you'll ever use it. This plan is a rip-off because of how much they charge for the benefits you get: $135/year for a $5000 payment that no more than 1/10,000 or fewer "members" will ever receive. Not only that, if you shoot someone and get in trouble, additional assistance is provided at the discretion of the "network," and no particular payment is guaranteed:

Network members defending against unmeritirious prosecution or civil litigation after a self defense incident occuring during their period of membership are also eligible for additional grants of financial aid from the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Foundation, a separate non-profit foundation.

I, personally, would not want the person holding the purse strings for my defense deciding whether my claim was meritorious or not.

A real, comprehensive insurance plan designed to help people in these kinds of situations would be great. Whoever runs this "network" wants to imply that it is such a plan, but it's not. It's not insurance at all. Although paying to defend yourself against a murder or manslaughter charge could bankrupt you, you'd probably have to pay for it whether or not you signed up for this service. Yeah, they'll pay you five grand, but most of us could scratch that up in an emergency. If you couldn't, you'd be given a public defender who, in the Northwest at least, would give you a perfectly adequate representation.

I'm much more willing to pay $30/month to a company that will spend $50k to fly me home if I break my leg in a jungle somewhere. Even though traveler's health/evacuation insurance is undoubtedly a bit of a ripoff, it's sold in a competitive market, and the benefits are specifically detailed.


I kinda agree with 1/2 nutz.

Looks from the outside very much like prepaid legal.
Somebody once told me that hiring an attorney or giving them their retainer ahead of time could be seen as premeditation...... I'll stick with a number in my wallet.

1. Signing up for a legal services plan is not hiring a lawyer any more than signing up for a vision plan is hiring an optometrist.

2. Even hiring a lawyer ahead of time absolutely positively cannot be seen as premeditation, unless you go to a lawyer, hire her, and tell her "I'm about to kill someone. Please represent me."

3. A business might have a lawyer "on retainer" to answer legal questions on an as-needed basis, but most criminal defense lawyers charge flat fees based on the amount of time they expect to spend on a case. There's no reason to pay them ahead of time - your money would just sit in their trust account and the interest would help pay for legal aid programs.

Keeping a trusted defense lawyer's business card in your wallet and some cash in your bank account is the best idea of all.


Really, this is all anybody needs to know about lawyers and self-defense:

Until you either hire or are given a lawyer: Don't talk to the police. Even if you know you didn't do anything wrong. Even if it's the most clear-cut and obvious case of self-defense ever. Even if you know the officer. If you've had to shoot somebody, or shoot at them, don't talk to the police until you have a lawyer. Don't say one word about what happened. Even if it wasn't your fault. Just tell them, "I want an attorney." If you feel like you have to let them know you're a good guy, you can tell them "I have every intention of cooperating, but I will not speak to you without an attorney. I want an attorney." Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.
 
Here's all the legal advice you need up until you either hire or are given a lawyer: Don't talk to the police. Even if you know you didn't do anything wrong. Even if it's the most clear-cut and obvious case of self-defense ever. Even if you know the officer. If you've had to shoot somebody, or shoot at them, don't talk to the police until you have a lawyer. Don't say one word about what happened. Even if it wasn't your fault.


1. Signing up for a legal services plan is not hiring a lawyer any more than signing up for a vision plan is hiring an optometrist.

2. Even hiring a lawyer ahead of time absolutely positively cannot be seen as premeditation, unless you go to a lawyer, hire her, and tell her "I'm about to kill someone. Please represent me."

3. A business might have a lawyer "on retainer" to answer legal questions on an as-needed basis, but most criminal defense lawyers charge flat fees based on the amount of time they expect to spend on a case. There's no reason to pay them ahead of time - your money would just sit in their trust account and the interest would help pay for legal aid programs.

Keeping a trusted defense lawyer's business card in your wallet and some cash in your bank account is the best idea of all.

Excellent advice. Make sure you talk to a lawyer. Also make sure you call the cops and let them know you are the victim. Don't leave or do other things to make them thing you are the BG.

Try to wait until you are calm, collected, and have adequate time to talk to your lawyer before you make your statement. Remember police are there to investigate a potential crime. Mistakes increase your likelihood of going to prison.

That service actually has some good advice on what to do after a shooting and some horrible examples of people getting convicted for their errors.
 
Really, this is all anybody needs to know about lawyers and self-defense:

Until you either hire or are given a lawyer: Don't talk to the police. I will not speak to you without an attorney. I want an attorney." Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.

===============================================

Best advice ever, we all must remember to keep are mouths shut, any thing you say can and will be used against you.
 
That service actually has some good advice on what to do after a shooting and some horrible examples of people getting convicted for their errors.

Yeah, the folks who run it do have a wealth of experience and knowledge, but the rest of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Upcoming Events

Rifle Mechanics
Sweet Home, OR
Oregon Arms Collectors May 2024 Gun Show
Portland, OR
Handgun Self Defense Fundamentals
Sweet Home, OR
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top