If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

[Caveman Jim]

It would mean a lot more if we were losing rights instead of gaining them...

Now it just means that I watch and listen, and when folks spout off and say that we are losing rights when the exact opposite is true, I simply remember who to ignore. Paranoid means your whole world view is skewed, so when you tell me who to vote for, I remember that that's probably skewed, too.

Pray tell then J6, exactly what rights are we gaining?

 

[Bruin]

It would mean a lot more if we were losing rights instead of gaining them...

Now it just means that I watch and listen, and when folks spout off and say that we are losing rights when the exact opposite is true, I simply remember who to ignore. Paranoid means your whole world view is skewed, so when you tell me who to vote for, I remember that that's probably skewed, too.

All through human history, governments, dictators, tyrants, and kings have been enslaving and butchering their subjects. The first thing tyrants do is disarm their people. Just in the last 100 years, leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Idi Amin etc. managed to murder over 100 million after they disarmed the people. To think it can happen again is not being paranoid. The intelligent conclusion is if our government succeeds in disarming us, then at that point we become subjects (slaves) and history will repeat it’s self once again. Albert Einstein said it best, “Crazy is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.” To me this means if you are pro-gun and keep voting for anyone in the anti-second amendment party and are expecting different results then you are just crazy.
As far as gaining rights go, the only ones gaining today are illegal aliens, criminals, politicians, transits, and transgender people; the rest of us are losing them.
Now back on topic do you fight? NO you never fight the bull head on, other wise you will wind up like Christopher Dorner.

 

[Jammer Six]

Godwin. Game.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Apparently there was a glitch

So I'll repeat...

If you are where they expect you to be, and not ready to respond in kind with a lawful militia team of your friends, you are doing it wrong

 

[aslinged]

Godwin. Game.

Cliche. Tool.

 

[Misterbill]

So let's see...

The author is suggesting that you kill the cops who get sent to carry out the acts of the legislature/congress.

If you plan on a fight at your home, you're an idiot or suicidal or both. If you planned to fight, presumably you (and your guns) would be long gone when they came.

And FWIW, why would you waste ammo on the errand boys instead of the ones that sent them?

 

[PMB]

Hi Mister Bill.
I read the original article carefully, and to me, he is certainly not an idiot or suicidal. It seems more like a patriot's call for freedom.
I do not know how to fix this situation.
Giving a "last great act of defiance" is not suicidal, even if you are killed. Symbolic? Or inspiring?

The many stories and histories that I have read about societies that were disarmed and then turned into tyrannical murdering butcher states leads me to believe that even though it's difficult to imagine that happening here, it would only take a few simple steps.

That doesn't mean that I think it WILL happen, but the consequences of being wrong on that count are too terrible to risk it.

Mister Bill, I am very concerned for the country's "freedom". What steps would you suggest to fix things so that no one has to be faced with the terrible decision of fighting the errand boys?

I am asking it in a polite manner- I'd genuinely like to hear some ideas about how to fix this thing.

Regards, Mike

Sometimes people are called idiots just because someone else disagrees with a statement...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'll paraphrase a famous quote here

The idea in war is not to die for your freedoms but to make tyrants and their enforcers die in the attempt to take them

 

[chariot13]

Godwin. Game.

Yes, it is well known that those that invoke the impression of godwins law being present are nazi sympathizer's just as Godwin was himself. What more obvious way of proclaiming your allegience is there, than to make an attempt of discounting anyone's argument against fascism, by using your own name against such arguments. Especially when one has shown relative points of behavior between one fascist & another. Godwin himself the great nazi sympathizer that came from a family of well known fascists, succeeded in fooling people like you.

A little history on Godwin; "Godwin even has gone as far as to published a pro-Evola article in the inaugural issue of Moynihan's Fascist/Pagan journal Tyr. It is somewhat startling and upsetting that a full professor of Godwin's high academic standing would write for such a clearly fascist publication run by a neo-Nazi who started out as a skinhead on the mean streets of Greater Boston."

Those that proclaim godwins law, are those that want it to appear that there could never be a legitimate comparison to the Third Reich, while they themselves are yearning to get away with the same deeds or worse.

 

[PMB]

I am very concerned for the country's "freedom". What steps would you suggest to fix things so that no one has to be faced with the terrible decision of fighting the errand boys?

I use quotes around that word because from what I have read of TRUE freedom,
(1)we've a nearly completely controlled monetary system that is designed to milk the middle class and prevent the VAST majority from accumulating wealth,
(2) the chipping away at natural rights has been going on since the good old days,
(3) that the military strength of the POLICE is so vastly greater than the even well-armed population that we should consider ourselves already in a Police State.
(4) Burt Gummer's signature- We have 5% of the worlds population. But we have 25% of the worlds prisoners. Less than half the people in prison, have committed a crime of violence. There is a law out there for you. One that says you are a criminal and should be put in a cage, for profit.

I have heard this stated in different ways and with different facts about every one of us is breaking a law in some way or another at some time. The National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act and the Assault Weapons Ban (sic) are all written so that any minutiae of miscalculations makes an otherwise law-abiding citizen a FELON.

922R... If you haven't read this monstrosity of mis-application of a legislative body's time, please do!

I am asking it in a polite manner- I'd genuinely like to hear some ideas about how to fix this thing. Before the errand boys come for us, one at a time, knocking down our doors and dragging us away, or shooting us and our families, and the entire time, even if there are national news cameras there- telling the whole wide world that we are dangerous criminals, who (gasp) stored 30 days of food! They had over 200 rounds of ammunition! Good lord, who needs 200 rounds of ammunition!?

Think it sounds like an exaggeration? Read the book about Ruby Ridge and the Weaver family. It's worth your time, but a warning ahead of time- it's going to rip away a little bit of your confidence in the trustfulness of your country and hope for a peaceful solution.

Regards, Mike

PS- None of this is meant as trying to be disagreeable with those who disagree with what I said. I truly don't have the answers. Still looking for them.

 

[Misterbill]

Hi Mister Bill.
I read the original article carefully, and to me, he is certainly not an idiot or suicidal. It seems more like a patriot's call for freedom.
I do not know how to fix this situation.
Giving a "last great act of defiance" is not suicidal, even if you are killed. Symbolic? Or inspiring?

The many stories and histories that I have read about societies that were disarmed and then turned into tyrannical murdering butcher states leads me to believe that even though it's difficult to imagine that happening here, it would only take a few simple steps.

That doesn't mean that I think it WILL happen, but the consequences of being wrong on that count are too terrible to risk it.

Mister Bill, I am very concerned for the country's "freedom". What steps would you suggest to fix things so that no one has to be faced with the terrible decision of fighting the errand boys?

I am asking it in a polite manner- I'd genuinely like to hear some ideas about how to fix this thing.

Regards, Mike

Sometimes people are called idiots just because someone else disagrees with a statement...

I frankly don't see us as being in that bad a situation. The anti-gun hysteria of the moment probably isn't going to fly outside places like NY and Cali, which were dead to me anyway. I certainly see no likelihood of confiscations, much less visits from storm troopers in the middle of the night.

I think the threads about what we do in the event of a stripping of our rights by jack-booted thugs in the middle of the night are exercises in paranoia.

Seriously, I think this is the last gasp of the antis. EVERYTHING they are saying has been refuted by hard, cold fact and I think a majority of Americans, once they have a chance to dial down the panic that occurs after something like Newtown see those facts and see the antis as hysterical people stuck in 1970 and looking for 1970s solutions to a problem that gets smaller every year all by itself.

In other words, I think hypothetical threads asking if you have the "duty" to kill cops add nothing to the fight to our rights. and as I pointed out, if you're going to use murder as a political weapon, you're a damned fool to go after the errand boys instead of the decision makers who sent them. Because you ARE going to die. Don't kid yourself. we aren't anywhere in the remote vicinity of another revolution or civil war.

So IF you choose to use murder as a political tool, you'll be looked on by just about everyone as another Timothy McVeigh and treated just the same.

And If you choose death and infamy, doing so to kill pawns instead of Bishops and Queens would seem about the dumbest and most futile way to go about it.

 

[unklekippy]

Timothy McVeigh? The only American that stood up to the assassin Lon Horiuchi and gave his life for it? The only terror of that day was the children. Horiuchi still lives the comfortable retired life on your and my dime for murdering Americans. McVeigh, guilty of the same crimes, was silenced once and for all. It's OK to murder, just be sure you do it for the right folks or you may be unjustly labeled. Kip.

 

[chariot13]

Timothy McVeigh? The only American that stood up to the assassin Lon Horiuchi and gave his life for it? The only terror of that day was the children. Horiuchi still lives the comfortable retired life on your and my dime for murdering Americans. McVeigh, guilty of the same crimes, was silenced once and for all. It's OK to murder, just be sure you do it for the right folks or you may be unjustly labeled. Kip.

I don't disagree that Lon Horiuchi is a terrorist and deserves to be dead for his actions but killing kids no matter if they were Lon's or some other jerk he worked with, is not right. No better than what the government did in waco to those kids. Evil loves it when it appears as the greater & lesser of two evils. By choosing the lesser of evil, evil is chosen no less.

 

[unklekippy]

Sammy Weaver was a child as well. If Horiuchi's .300 Win. Mag cases at Waco weren't enough, then they lit the damn fires.

To be specifically clear, I stated that the children were the only terror. Anyone that views Horiuchi as the lesser evil is effectively brainwashed. No decent person wants to see dead children, but when the aggressor's stack little bodies first, how is McVeigh the greater of evils? Oh yeah. No badge. The timeline is clear. We are told by our own media that Muslims only blow up mosques as a last result, because of what is done to them on a daily basis by The Great Oppressor, Isreal and Her Minions In The West. When one agency and seemingly one agent(Horiuchi) is waging this same type of warfare, when does the oppressed American get his heroes welcome? His 70 virgins? McVeigh himself was unaware of the amount of children in the building. He said himself that had he known, he would probably picked another target. On the other hand, the ATF knew full well that Sammy Weaver was a child and that many children were in the Waco complex. With extreme prejudice, they slaughtered those children and tortured them so as to be a warning to the rest of us. The taunting of Vickie Weavers children(none of whom cut a shotgun barrel 1/2 AN INCH PAST ITS LEGAL LENGTH) for days as they lay,sit and stand in a room full of their Mother's rotting grey matter is beyond sickening.

That pure evil will not be spun through a forked tongue to make sense to me. Murder is murder is murder is murder.....Badge or not. Kip

 

[unklekippy]

chariot13-I agree with you 100% on the children angle. If we men could fight our wars for right and wrong and never involve a child, I'm sure we'd all take it. But when the children start dying, isn't that when it's time to defend them most? Take up our arms and not allow that anyone harm our children?

It may be viewed as sick, but did we hear much more about militia's/loner's/cult's having their doors kicked in for no other reason than "government curiosity" after the front of a federal building was removed? It almost proves you have to speak their language to get a dialog. That is proof of a sick world.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

PMB said

(3) that the military strength of the POLICE is so vastly greater than the even well-armed population that we should consider ourselves already in a Police State.

There are 100 million gun owners in this nation at present.. if only 10% of us fought back there would be no enforcers in a very short time

From Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's book The Gulag Archipelago

If only the decent Russians had fought back, if only they had ambushed some of these secret police thugs in the hallways of their apartments with knives and pickaxes and hammers, if only they had spiked the tires of the police vans while the thugs were in the apartments dragging out their victims, they could easily have overwhelmed Yagoda's forces and forced an end to the mass arrests. But they didn't fight back, and the arrests and liquidations continued

We have one hell of a lot more than pickaxes and hammers.. what many today seem to lack is a spine

 

[Rotty]

When and insane man begins to sound sane to you ? You are already lost and only shows your ignorance in this reality.

Nice!! One man's reality is another man's insanity. To us the anti-2nd amendment morons see the Pro 2nd Amendment defenders as insane and visa versa.

The question is, which insanity is going to win out. I prefer to be charged with Insanity for the defense of the 2nd Amendment. No plea bargaining required.

 

[Jammer Six]

Yes, it is well known that those that invoke ..

Ad hominem.

 

[Jammer Six]

I say , Regardless of our skin color, nationality, religion, gender, height, weight or sexual preference, we are all human and should be entitled to the same dignity and respect that everybody else desires.

As long as that applies to everyone, with a capital E, I'm with you.

There are many, many groups that are simply unpopular, and usually serve to show that one doesn't mean what they say when it comes down to brass tacks, rights and human dignity. The first one that comes to mind is illegal aliens. Another is felons. But if you really mean what you say, we are on the same side of that issue.

All rights, all the people, all the time. The rest is arm waving and compromise.

 

[erudne]

As much as I want to be that man on a horse that rides to the rescue I am now 1 step away from a wheelchair, a few years at most.
As a former 11 Bravo I realize just what an anchor I would be outside of an advisory role, and of course my experience is decades out of date.
There is a scene in John Ford's 'They Were Expendable' where an old Shipwright, facing the Japanese conquest of the Philippines sits calmly on his front porch, a pistol, shotgun and jug of whiskey near to hand.
I hate to face it, but at least the porch will be one I built with my own hands.