If the Gulf Oil Spill had happened in Portland...

[BSG 75]

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[Jamie6.5]

Yes,... But it wouldn't be a mile under water and so difficult to fix. If it had been in water no deeper than the Columbia is, it would have been fixed inside of a week.

Drop the moratorium on drilling within sight of the shoreline!
Accidents happen in all industries. We have created a situation where these problems can't be fixed.

And we certainly need to be using OUR oil, not oil from countries that don't like us.

 

[ZachS]

Yes,... But it wouldn't be a mile under water and so difficult to fix. If it had been in water no deeper than the Columbia is, it would have been fixed inside of a week.

Drop the moratorium on drilling within sight of the shoreline!
Accidents happen in all industries. We have created a situation where these problems can't be fixed.

That's simply not true - a very similar spill 30 years ago in water 160 feet deep was just as difficult to fix. If you have any authority showing otherwise, please share it.

And we certainly need to be using OUR oil, not oil from countries that don't like us.

That would be wonderful, but additional offshore drilling is not going to make a **** of a lot of difference: A <broken link removed> , set out this hard fact:

"At its peak in production, which occurred in 1970s, the U.S. produced about 10 million [barrels of oil] a day," Kaufman says. "Now, after 30 years of fairly steady decline, we produce about five million barrels a day," whereas we consume 20 million barrels daily. "Whoever talks about oil independence has to tell a story about how we close a 15-million-barrel gap."

Offshore production only accounts for 1/3 of our oil production now, at the very most two million barrels a day. Even if we multiplied it by five, which is very unlikely, we'd likely increase our imports at a greater rate to fuel our constantly-expanding economy. Additional oil wells will never be more than a drop in the bucket.

 

[Trlsmn]

1/3 of anything is significant. 5 x 1/3 = 166 percent of total current production, better stick to law!

 

[CEF1959]

1/3 of anything is significant. 5 x 1/3 = 166 percent of total current production, better stick to law!

No doubt off-shore production contributes significantly to our current supply. In the coming years, as we wean ourselves off fossil fuels, we'll need a broad array of sources.

But what's up with the last part of the post? Seemed gratuituously insulting to a guy, armed with some good stats, who's just making a point.

 

[cbzdel]

But what's up with the last part of the post? Seemed gratuituously insulting to a guy, armed with some good stats, who's just making a point.

ZachS seems like a pretty smart guy always posting great info.. I think Trlsmn just found a flaw and wanted to point it out and say haha gotcha on that one..

 

[Trlsmn]

No doubt off-shore production contributes significantly to our current supply. In the coming years, as we wean ourselves off fossil fuels, we'll need a broad array of sources.

But what's up with the last part of the post? Seemed gratuituously insulting to a guy, armed with some good stats, who's just making a point.

The tongue smiley means I'm just poking fun at ZackS!

My younger son in his wisdom made the statement once that I considered an epiphany that only a kid could make.

We are told the two big concerns for the future are the end of oil and carbon caused global warming. His statement was that the end of oil will cancel out the production of carbon pollution so it's not a problem!

 

[ZachS]

ZachS seems like a pretty smart guy always posting great info.. I think Trlsmn just found a flaw and wanted to point it out and say haha gotcha on that one..

What he thought was a flaw, anyway. Even though offshore production is a significant share of total domestic production, total domestic production is a declining share of total domestic use.

Total domestic use continues to grow. Offshore production would have to grow at rates that are probably impossible (and definitely unrealistic) to have a significant impact on U.S. energy independence. Even though we can suck a lot of oil up through the seafloor, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the massive amount we use.

I'm not trying moral statement about oil use or offshore drilling. While I think this oil spill is horrible, I also know that it's not the apocalyptic ecological disaster it's made out to be. The biggest effects will probably be on gulf coast fisheries. I'm just trying to point out that politicians who promote offshore drilling as a realistic solution to our energy problems are being, at best, disingenuous.

 

[Trlsmn]

I'm all for sucking the rest of the worlds oil supply dry first before we tap our own!

 

[ZachS]

I'm all for sucking the rest of the worlds oil supply dry first before we tap our own!

I would be too, except for the fact that jackass dictators and tsar-wannabees suck up all of the profits.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

That diagram is ridiculous, and has no relevance for the simple facts that;
A. I don't live underwater.
B. The oil would be moving in completely different directions.

Also, this is assuming we have oil reserves off our coast. I doubt this, considering we don't have active drilling going on, but I honestly don't know.

 

[cbzdel]

That diagram is ridiculous, and has no relevance for the simple facts that;
A. I don't live underwater.
B. The oil would be moving in completely different directions.

Also, this is assuming we have oil reserves off our coast. I doubt this, considering we don't have active drilling going on, but I honestly don't know.

When I first saw it I thought it was a job, the oil spill would ascend halfway up Mount Rainier

The only thing this map is good for it comparing the size of the spill to something we can grasp a size on..

 

[elsullo]

Two months ago, if somebody had told me that there was oil drilling nearly a mile deep under an ocean, I would have thought they were nuts! I never dreamed of such stupidity. How ridiculous is this? What if there is a blowout? What if they don't maintain the wellhead blowout preventer? Kind of hard to fix at that depth and under that pressure! They are seriously concerned that the steel well casing could split from the pressure and become unfixable.

Turns out that there are dozens of such wells, and hundreds at a half-mile depth. And the only fix for this blown-out well is to drill two more---at an angle! Who gives the permission for all of this insanity?............................elsullo :huh:

 

[Trlsmn]

Two months ago, if somebody had told me that there was oil drilling nearly a mile deep under an ocean, I would have thought they were nuts! I never dreamed of such stupidity. How ridiculous is this? What if there is a blowout? What if they don't maintain the wellhead blowout preventer? Kind of hard to fix at that depth and under that pressure! They are seriously concerned that the steel well casing could split from the pressure and become unfixable.

Turns out that there are dozens of such wells, and hundreds at a half-mile depth. And the only fix for this blown-out well is to drill two more---at an angle! Who gives the permission for all of this insanity?............................elsullo :huh:

If you drive a car, ride a bus, heat your home or use any kind of product bought from a store, by proxy, you are giving them permission! How does it feel to be as responsible for the oil spill as Sarah Palin?

 

[elsullo]

If you drive a car, ride a bus, heat your home or use any kind of product bought from a store, by proxy, you are giving the permission! How does it feel to be as responsible for the oil spill as Sarah Palin?

No, I have never supported any political representative who backed offshore oil drilling. I have actively opposed them. I was shocked when Obama joined the supporters, just before this disaster happened---the IRONY!

But how many supporters of offshore drilliing had any idea that they were doing it A MILE DEEP WITH BAD MAINTENANCE OF THE WELLHEAD? I think only corrupt government agency employees could write-off on that scheme! Nobody else is responsible.........................elsullo :huh:

 

[Trlsmn]

That's simply not true - a very similar spill 30 years ago in water 160 feet deep was just as difficult to fix. If you have any authority showing otherwise, please share it.

OMG that happened during the Carter administration! Why didn't the Democrats fix this problem?

 

[ZachS]

If you drive a car, ride a bus, heat your home or use any kind of product bought from a store, by proxy, you are giving them permission! How does it feel to be as responsible for the oil spill as Sarah Palin?

I know what you're talking about, I definitely feel responsible for all those times I let the corrupt managers and inspectors at the Minerals Management Service give the oil companies backrubs instead of making sure they followed the law.

Point being, our oil consumption may be what makes disasters like this possible - but there are a lot of other things that actually make them happen.

 

[Trlsmn]

No, I have never supported any political representative who backed offshore oil drilling. I have actively opposed them. I was shocked when Obama joined the supporters, just before this disaster happened---the IRONY!

Sorry but if you consume oil you supported offshore drilling. The idea is noble but until you practice what you preach you're no better than the supporters of off shore drilling.

But how many supporters of offshore drilliing had any idea that they were doing it A MILE DEEP WITH BAD MAINTENANCE OF THE WELLHEAD? I think only corrupt government agency employees could write-off on that scheme! Nobody else is responsible.........................elsullo :huh:

Being in the aerospace industry we have a concept know as "tombstone technology" that means until there is a problem things appear to run along fine, this is not a concept unique to the oil industry, the whole world runs this way.

 

[Trlsmn]

I know what you're talking about, I definitely feel responsible for all those times I let the corrupt managers and inspectors at the Minerals Management Service give the oil companies backrubs instead of making sure they followed the law.

Point being, our oil consumption may be what makes disasters like this possible - but there are a lot of other things that actually make them happen.

Yes but when you follow that buck passing chain of responsibility we must in the end include ourselves the consumers as the ultimate buck stops here responsible party.

 

[ZachS]

Yes but when you follow that buck passing chain of responsibility we must in the end include ourselves the consumers as the ultimate buck stops here responsible party.

I agree that we all have a hand on the proverbial gas pump, but in our system legal punishment is reserved for those who are the immediate cause of an event, not the legions of people behind them who are simply lay the groundwork that lets it happen.

The antis love to make the argument that criminals wouldn't shoot innocent people if gun manufacturers didn't make guns, and that the gun manufacturers are somehow responsible for those deaths. Or even that we're all responsible because of our "gun culture' or some other such nonsense.

It's a stupid argument.