If I-1639 Passed Because of Lazy Voters, What Would It Take To Turn Them Out?

[arakboss]

I thought I-1639 was very infringing on gun rights but it evidently was not violating enough to turn out enough 2A supporters to defeat it. In fact it passed by a landslide imho. So assuming there are sufficient numbers of 2A supporters to out vote an anti-gun rights initiative in WA or OR. What kind of Initiative would it take to turn out these voters in successful numbers to defeat it? Would an IP43 type of Initiative been enough or would it have to be a complete semi-auto ban or something even more restrictive? I am trying gauge the tolerance of WA and OR voters that support gun rights and it seems that many are pretty tolerant, at least in WA.

Edit: to be fair to WA residents. Oregon residents also seemed to display great tolerance of the anti-gun rights movement by allowing a mostly anti-gun rights super majority to take control of the state government.

There is lot's of tolerance to go around.

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[Alexx1401]

As is often said trying to get gun owning voters together is like herding cats. Liberals tend to vote with a hive mind, they will do what they are told. Conservatives of course will not. Often they will not vote as they "don't like the choices". Problem then is of course they elect the winner who they hate. How bad will it get till it wakes up a lot? Hard to say. Look at the state of CA as a great example. Millions of gun owners still live there. Yet the gun rights people still can not get them to vote as a block.

 

[arakboss]

As is often said trying to get gun owning voters together is like herding cats. Liberals tend to vote with a hive mind, they will do what they are told. Conservatives of course will not. Often they will not vote as they "don't like the choices". Problem then is of course they elect the winner who they hate. How bad will it get till it wakes up a lot? Hard to say. Look at the state of CA as a great example. Millions of gun owners still live there. Yet the gun rights people still can not get them to vote as a block.

I know exactly what your talking about. My mom is very conservative and refused to vote for knute because of his positions on abortion and other social issues. Ladies in her bible study group felt the same way. So I wonder how many of those types of voters are out there. She is not a huge fan of firearms either so while she is registered as a Republican she couldn't be considered a reliable vote on supporting gun rights.

And you are right on about CA too. I think that is where the whole coast is headed unless there is some major reversal in the voting patterns here.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Many of the folks I talked to about I-1639 were not concerned because "It didn't affect the guns they liked / owned" or were confused by the language in the bill.
Some didn't even fully read the proposed bill because "It was too many pages long."

Not sure what the solution to this is...as its a alien way of thinking to me.
I have always felt that if one type of firearm is banned or restricted , then the same could happen to any firearm...As for confusing language in a bill ....Well that's why I re-read the Damn thing and ask questions...And "too many pages"..? Just how many pages does it take to lose your freedom...?

A few things I think we need :
A more united front as gun owners...
A better "public image"...
Simple concise language to make our points...

Just how to get these things , is as shown in the election outcome , the posts above and the vast number of threads on the topic , is a issue we need to overcome as well.
Andy

 

[justcuz]

Alas, the woe is me & sky is falling bemoaning of how/what and oh didn't see this passing mentality of OR/WA initiative measures is getting really really old.

Same rhetoric stated after 594...firearm enthusiasts are completely disjointed and can't begin to organize into coherent or cohesive entities and certainly can not muster the $$$ nor push against moms against everything rantings nor newspeek & social media, no matter what anybody believes!

States legislature's are tickled pink because the can tell their constituents "hey, sorry I didn't support this it is the people's mandate!" As the smile broadly glad it passed.

Further, everyone is criticizing the 'symptom' of individual initiatives instead of the specific root cause, the 1900's initiative process itself. Actually a good idea initially when no mass media or social media nor allowance of million/billionaires to push their special interests allowed viable issues to be presented w/o going through the legislative process.

So folks as they say, the pigs are out of the pen and no matter what excuse, too many pages, doesn't affect me, or I don't own firearms but thought the initiative was a good idea, ad nauseam, this state's firearm enthusiasts are stuckees, like we were with 594, with this!

I hope and pray the issue doesn't go national!

 

[justcuz]

PS..don't hear a whining word from anybody about residential property taxes & school board levees voted upon by those voters who rent and live in apartments and don't have a blessed vested interest in paying property taxes or levees! Hummm, think about that concept!

 

[arakboss]

PS..don't hear a whining word from anybody about residential property taxes & school board levees voted upon by those voters who rent and live in apartments and don't have a blessed vested interest in paying property taxes or levees! Hummm, think about that concept!

I hear ya, believe me that stuff is eating me up too but I am sticking to the gun rights issues for this forum.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Biggest problem are the sheer numbers of snowflake liberals in and around King County. I'm not sure how to get around that.

 

[KKG]

I think that one of the problems is that too many gun owners seem to be willing to "Fight" if someone comes to take their guns but don't want to be giving up their personal information. Many see registering to Vote as being just that. Same, same with getting a CPL. I'm sure many "live off the grid" for many of the same reasons. Me, I'm just a tree in the forest and with all the others with my name I'm pretty sure I'm well hidden.

 

[Alexx1401]

PS..don't hear a whining word from anybody about residential property taxes & school board levees voted upon by those voters who rent and live in apartments and don't have a blessed vested interest in paying property taxes or levees! Hummm, think about that concept!

LOL, I have often, very often, gotten a huge laugh out of this. People who rent, and would vote for these. Then when their rent was raised screamed like stuck pigs. When I would ask about voting for levies and bond issues that went on property tax they would of course say, hell yes I voted for that, I don't own. The deer in the headlights look when I would say you just voted your rent increase was priceless.

 

[titsonritz]

B!tch, moan and complain all you want, no one can make anyone to do anything, they'll do it or not.

 

[Jonnyuma]

My mom is very conservative... I wonder how many of those types of voters are out there. She is not a huge fan of firearms either so while she is registered as a Republican she couldn't be considered a reliable vote on supporting gun rights.

This got me to thinking about my own family. While not religious, all solidly conservative and Republican. By no means anti-gun, but not "enthusiasts" and I'm pretty sure my gun-owning, retired cop Dad would have been okay with l-1639 if he lived here. Mom and Big Sis too... we can all get together, have a good laugh and shake our heads over the antics of liberals and SJWs, but in the end I think they would have voted for 1639 even if I asked them not to and explained what it is.

I think those people are legion and unreachable... it's why "common sense" infringements shouldn't be put on the ballot. There's no accountability.

 

[arakboss]

This got me to thinking about my own family. While not religious, all solidly conservative and Republican. By no means anti-gun, but not "enthusiasts" and I'm pretty sure my gun-owning, retired cop Dad would have been okay with l-1639 if he lived here. Mom and Big Sis too... we can all get together, have a good laugh and shake our heads over the antics of liberals and SJWs, but in the end I think they would have voted for 1639 even if I asked them not to and explained what it is.

I think those people are legion and unreachable... it's why "common sense" infringements shouldn't be put on the ballot. There's no accountability.

I think there might be quiet a few older folks too (even gun owners), who don't appreciate the semi-auto culture that many of us embrace today. (AR15s, AK's, Glock building and the like). They might not see a restriction of these platforms as a serious infringement of the 2A.

 

[Boss]

I've thought the same myself.

The grassroots effort was strong...lots of signs, letters to editors, etc. But there were some gaps, like commercials in King Co/Puget sound highlighting significant (massive?) LE opposition to 1639. Yes, I know...uber expensive, but coulda helped.

Regardless, it would appear to be literally door-to-door canvasing of the types of folks I call 'silver platters' is needed. They are the folks who won't do ANYTHING unless its hand-delivered to them on a silver platter, 99% complete, all they have to do is spend 10 seconds on it, and of course get full credit. Maybe next time, listings of all republican voters who didn't return a ballot(if such are obtainable) will need to be reviewed, folks will need to literally go door-to-door and encourage them to actually take the 5 minutes to fill out their ballots. I know I saw a news story of some folks with smartphones doing exactly something like this somewhere downtown (Seattle perhaps).

BOSS

 

[Jonnyuma]

I think there might be quiet a few older folks too (even gun owners), who don't appreciate the semi-auto culture that many of us embrace today. (AR15s, AK's, Glock building and the like). They might not see a restriction of these platforms as a serious infringement of the 2A.

I think you're absolutely right.
The last time I talked to my Mom about guns was in the 80s and it had to do with "assault rifles".
My old man knows where I stand, but I chose to never discuss it w Mom again.

 

[svxr8dr]

The math just is not there for gun owners in WA State. When King County has over a 70% turn out with 76% of those voting against inalienable rights you get 600,000 NO votes from just one county. Pro Gun folks cannot match numerically, this is not a lack of effort on the part of gun owners.

 

[arakboss]

I've thought the same myself.

The grassroots effort was strong...lots of signs, letters to editors, etc. But there were some gaps, like commercials in King Co/Puget sound highlighting significant (massive?) LE opposition to 1639. Yes, I know...uber expensive, but coulda helped.

Regardless, it would appear to be literally door-to-door canvasing of the types of folks I call 'silver platters' is needed. They are the folks who won't do ANYTHING unless its hand-delivered to them on a silver platter, 99% complete, all they have to do is spend 10 seconds on it, and of course get full credit. Maybe next time, listings of all republican voters who didn't return a ballot(if such are obtainable) will need to be reviewed, folks will need to literally go door-to-door and encourage them to actually take the 5 minutes to fill out their ballots. I know I saw a news story of some folks with smartphones doing exactly something like this somewhere downtown (Seattle perhaps).

BOSS

Your suggestions are good ones and I agree with them. Certain parties have made these types of get out the vote efforts in the past and literally transported voters to the polling stations along with massive get out the vote efforts. They were very organized, had money and a cause or candidate that was well received in the areas they were active in. We don't have that organization and our cause may not be well received in many parts of our states.

Edit spelling

 

[arakboss]

I think you're absolutely right.
The last time I talked to my Mom about guns was in the 80s and it had to do with "assault rifles".
My old man knows where I stand, but I chose to never discuss it w Mom again.

Yep many women (not all) and "assault weapons" mixed together like oil and water in my experience.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

In all honesty I think they cheated.
I think gun owners DID turn out, Especially with what was at stake.

I think the pro gun residents of Washington were robbed with this election and those bills.

 

[arakboss]

The math just is not there for gun owners in WA State. When King County has over a 70% turn out with 76% of those voting against inalienable rights you get 600,000 NO votes from just one county. Pro Gun folks cannot match numerically, this is not a lack of effort on the part of gun owners.

I think we see eye to eye. I am really thinking this is a numbers problem (at least for I-1639) and not necessarily a get out the vote problem. When something passes with a 60/40 margin it's hard to imagine that there was that many on one side of the issue that just didn't vote.