If Greece Fails

[Gunner3456]

Yep, run up the debt as far as you can as quickly as you can.

Get everyone hooked on the entitlements, handouts and yank them out from underneath them, then we will have the chaos to boneheads want, so they can institute martial and take away all of our rights.

I keep telling you. I never planned on living forever. At least not on this earth.

 

[powersbj]

I keep telling you. I never planned on living forever. At least not on this earth.

+1

If you project out far enough the survival rate is 0 no matter how hard you try.

 

[knuckle Head]

+1

If you project out far enough the survival rate is 0 no matter how hard you try.

Yeah, that is true.

But, it is my desire to push that out as far as I can, that is my basic survival instinct.

 

[Gunner3456]

Yeah, that is true.

But, it is my desire to push that out as far as I can, that is my basic survival instinct.

My basic instinct is to live as a free man. Our founders pledged their lives and fortunes for it. What is life - it's but a vapor.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Unfortunately, none of us are really free men. We just have the illusion of freedom to pacify us.

As for Greece -

Just like Greece, we are in debt up to our eyeballs.

Just like Greece, our politicians thought that they could pile up gigantic mountains of debt indefinitely.

Just like Greece, this debt is going to have very, very serious consequences.

Just like Greece, we are going to have mass economic rioting in our streets.

The road that Greece is going down is the exact same road that the United States is going down.

Yes, the Federal Reserve could step in and print up trillions and trillions of dollars, but that would not solve our problems. The truth is that a hyperinflationary crash can be even worse than a deflationary crash.

What is happening in Greece is just the beginning. A bunch of other eurozone nations are also rapidly approaching a date with destiny. At some point the United States is going to experience massive problems as well.

The epicenter for the financial collapse of 2008 was the United States.

The epicenter for the next financial collapse will almost certainly be Europe.

When Europe goes down, the rest of the world will be dragged down with them.

The next wave of the economic collapse is coming.

You better get ready.

-ECB

 

[Gunner3456]

Unfortunately, none of us are really free men. We just have the illusion of freedom to pacify us.

I agree we aren't nearly as free as we used to be, but:

Today I am free to buy, sell and own firearms with no one's permission.

Today I have a right to a CHL.

Today I can own a select-fire weapon and/or a suppressed one.

Today I can work in any industry I choose, and can own the property and/or my own business.

Today I can own my home or other property, although I feel like the high property tax bills mitigate that "ownership" somewhat. During the Great Depression many people lost free and clear homes because they couldn't pay the taxes, so not much has changed there.

Today I can move anywhere within the US I want without permission.

I could go on, but all of the above are freedoms I'm afraid of losing, or at least having someone try to take them.

I agree with all of the rest of your post, exactly, and I'm doing my best to prepare for it and I believe others had best do the same.

$.02

 

[Burt Gummer]

With great respect - I like your posts - however you have liberties/permissions and not freedoms/rights. Everything listed can be taken away at any time including real property. I agree that we are fortunate to have the liberties we do have, while they last. The only real freedom one has is within their own mind; freedom to think and reason as an independent person. We are moving toward less and less 'liberties' over time so I do treasure the ones we have for now.

 

[BrentN]

How many hundreds of billions of euros need to be tossed to 11 million people? I'm really missing something here.

 

[Gunner3456]

How many hundreds of billions of euros need to be tossed to 11 million people? I'm really missing something here.

Greece's debt is about $500 bil. The problem is that they can't pay anything on it, and keep running up more deficits. They need another loan right now for about 150 bil just to pay their bills for the next few months, with no end in sight. Also, because their debt is so risky (they just turned down a deal where every creditor would lose 1/2 of what he was owed because their spoiled people rioted at the required spending cuts) the interest rates they are being charged for borrowing are sky high, adding to the problem.

So, right now their debts are about $650 bil if you add what they need to borrow right now, and a few months from now they'd need to borrow lots more. They are going under.

It's the domino effect. If Greece defaults (and having their debts cut in half is surely a form of default) then the banks in particular which are owed the money could go broke. That could easily take Spain, Portugal and Italy down. Then if those countries defaulted on their debts...

Even US banks are owed about $50 billion by Greece and they could take that loss. Then if the dominoes started falling in Europe and other countries defaulted, US banks and Wall Street would take massive hits.

What I'd like to see happen is for Greece to be allowed to default (file bankruptcy) and be removed from using the Euro so they had to form their own currency which no one would want, and then suffer the consequences. They'd have no way to pay their socialist people their "entitlements" and they'd have to just suffer the riots and social breakdown, and to **** with them.

 

[Reco]

Basicaly WWIII is around the corner. Isreal is seriously looking to attack Iran and the rest those countries will fail economically its like boom time. What a F*cked up time to be alive. Also with the total withdrawl of USA from IRaq it seems the US will have enough forces to start a new war. Even though we dont have the cash for it.

 

[knuckle Head]

Basicaly WWIII is around the corner. Isreal is seriously looking to attack Iran and the rest those countries will fail economically its like boom time. What a F*cked up time to be alive. Also with the total withdrawl of USA from IRaq it seems the US will have enough forces to start a new war. Even though we dont have the cash for it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/w...iraq-troop-increase-in-persian-gulf.html?_r=3

Israeli PM orders investigation into Iran leak | World news | guardian.co.uk

UK military steps up plans for Iran attack amid fresh nuclear fears | World news | The Guardian

Greek government on brink of collapse over debt crisis | World news | guardian.co.uk

My Way News - Peaceful Occupy protests degenerate into chaos

Yeah "RECO" your right, it is a fudged up mess and ain't getting any better.

My Way News - Peaceful Occupy protests degenerate into chaos

more to the unemployment lines as well http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/02/us/air-force-civilian-cuts/

 

[A.I.P.]

Originally Posted by kenno
"I hope you folks have your Beans, Blankets, Bandaids, BEER, Boots, Sleepingbags and Boolits
Fixed it! "

I am so serious about the comming situation that I have stopped drinking in order to be a bit more clear headed and a few pounds lighter WTSHTF

 

[Gunner3456]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/w...iraq-troop-increase-in-persian-gulf.html?_r=3

Israeli PM orders investigation into Iran leak | World news | guardian.co.uk

UK military steps up plans for Iran attack amid fresh nuclear fears | World news | The Guardian

Greek government on brink of collapse over debt crisis | World news | guardian.co.uk

My Way News - Peaceful Occupy protests degenerate into chaos

Yeah "RECO" your right, it is a fudged up mess and ain't getting any better.

My Way News - Peaceful Occupy protests degenerate into chaos

more to the unemployment lines as well Air Force to cut thousands of civilian jobs - CNN.com

Good links. It's crazy everywhere. The US, UK and Israel may be planning a massive attack on Iran soon. That would be good and bad. Iran is the biggest problem in the ME without nukes, so if we knock them out of the game it would go better in Iraq and Lebanon and Gaza, etc. because they provide so much help to troublemakers there. However, it could backfire and turn into a major war too.

We could find a massive world wide shortage of oil. Gas stations here would close and trucks and trains would stop running. Iran would try to block the straights though which most of the world's oil passes. Other oil producers could get into the war... We will be wishing we had started drilling for our own oil and natural gas and building refineries and gotten away from ME oil.

It's crazy in Europe - on the verge of bankruptcy and if they go down it will take our banks and Wall Street down because they have loaned so much money over there. Also, they would stop buying our goods and we export massively to them.

These are very unsettling times.

 

[A.I.P.]

The majority of America is totaly clueless Sheep; Wolves; and Sheepdogs

 

[knuckle Head]

There is a little good news, Marathon and Oil the other companies have been investing heavily into it's refineries around the U.S., expanding and replacing old worn out equipment, also beefing up security, don't ask for a link.

You'll have to just take my word on this one.

But we do need to do more drilling, I am not a tree hugger, but I am a conservationist in that I love the out door.

I say open up ANWAR with very strict environmental regulations, suck it dry reclamate back to it's natural state.

 

[BrentN]

Greece's debt is about $500 bil. The problem is that they can't pay anything on it, and keep running up more deficits. They need another loan right now for about 150 bil just to pay their bills for the next few months, with no end in sight. Also, because their debt is so risky (they just turned down a deal where every creditor would lose 1/2 of what he was owed because their spoiled people rioted at the required spending cuts) the interest rates they are being charged for borrowing are sky high, adding to the problem.

So, right now their debts are about $650 bil if you add what they need to borrow right now, and a few months from now they'd need to borrow lots more. They are going under.

It's the domino effect. If Greece defaults (and having their debts cut in half is surely a form of default) then the banks in particular which are owed the money could go broke. That could easily take Spain, Portugal and Italy down. Then if those countries defaulted on their debts...

Even US banks are owed about $50 billion by Greece and they could take that loss. Then if the dominoes started falling in Europe and other countries defaulted, US banks and Wall Street would take massive hits.

What I'd like to see happen is for Greece to be allowed to default (file bankruptcy) and be removed from using the Euro so they had to form their own currency which no one would want, and then suffer the consequences. They'd have no way to pay their socialist people their "entitlements" and they'd have to just suffer the riots and social breakdown, and to **** with them.

Totally agree. I'm just running on the assumption that a default is inevitable, and this can they keep kickin is awful expensive.

 

[Gunner3456]

If anyone is really interested, here are about ten really good newspaper articles from the UK that really explain the nuances of what's happening and what could happen. Just read the "more on this story" links after the first article. They are easy and fairly short reads.

BBC News - G20 leaders seek solution to eurozone debt crisis

 

[BrentN]

Thanks for the link, Gunner. 1st sentence says that the g20 leaders are looking to increase the firepower of the IMF, what could that possibly mean? Increased quotas from contributing nations? And, of course, the U.S. quota is by far the largest of all member nations.

 

[chemist]

How many people here had heard that the Greek Parliament gutted their entire military leadership three days ago?
Opposition fury over sackings of Greek military chiefs | Reuters
"The socialist government late on Tuesday replaced the heads of the army, navy and air force and the chief of joint chiefs of staff."

The officials appear to be terrified of another military coup - which implies to me that they're worried the military will back the people, not the government. And not a whisper made it to these shores.

 

[Barefoot343]

How many people here had heard that the Greek Parliament gutted their entire military leadership three days ago?
Opposition fury over sackings of Greek military chiefs | Reuters
"The socialist government late on Tuesday replaced the heads of the army, navy and air force and the chief of joint chiefs of staff."

The officials appear to be terrified of another military coup - which implies to me that they're worried the military will back the people, not the government. And not a whisper made it to these shores.

I saw that yesterday as well. Pretty interesting to say the least.