Idaho ID - Don't be this guy - Killed Man instead of Bull

[Boboclown]

Events like that are why I'd want an AR in my patrol car if I were a police officer, it just goes to show you need to keep up with the times.

 

[Argonaut]

I'm just of the opinion that the AR-15 is Overkill as a long gun for LEOs on a day to day basis. And, this is a good example of just that. Spray and Pray came into being with the M-16 and the World hasn't been the same since. And that's not a Good change in my opinion.

That is ridiculous..........an AR 15 is a coyote rifle. It works well as an anti personnel weapon but it is not powerful. What about the FBI's use of the 7mm mag......it (The AR15) has decent accuracy and range that can be nessisary for a rural (or even a city) sheriff. 20 years ago I had a truck brake down in California between Eureka and Redding. A nice CHP took pity on me and gave me a lift into town. He had a short barrel 870 and a M16 (select fire) in a rack on the dash. I asked him about it. He worked a lot on rural roads with little radio communication and his agency decided he may need the additional range of the M16. I say give them an RPG if they need. Why would you even consider hampering a LE professional (that works for you) in his job of protecting the public or himself.........you have been watching too much TV.

 

[KKG]

Sounds more anecdotal than a statement that applies across the board. I haven't seen many people just do mag dumps at the range (most here don't).

But as for training, they aren't training them to just put it on full auto (if you even get issued one with full auto instead of burst, are they doing burst only still?) and hope for the best.

That's Now. I was on Active Duty when the M-16 entered service. Including 6 weeks of Basic with the M-14 and Two more with the M-16. I also did 13 months as the Division Smallarms Inspector for the 1st Cav. And currently I am an NRA RSO and have seen the Dump the Magazine after Magazine Shooting that I'm talking about. But, you are welcome to believe anything you want because you will anyway.

 

[KKG]

Events like that are why I'd want an AR in my patrol car if I were a police officer, it just goes to show you need to keep up with the times.

The AR in my Patrol Car was an AR-10 that was semiauto only and it was more than enough. But I had also been trained in it's use.

 

[Boboclown]

Course I will. Cause the blanket statement that everyone just does mag dumps assumes most do it, based on anecdotal evidence that would require statistical evidence to back it up for it be an argument.

And even now with the U.S using the M4, they aren't training them to put the selector on auto (or is it burst now? someone answer please) and hope for the best.

 

[Boboclown]

Also to suggest police now use full auto is another blanket statement. Not all departments issue a select fire rifle. Some may have them and only issue the select fire rifles to SWAT while the patrol only gets semiautos.

 

[Argonaut]

My reference - Spray & Pray - was the US Military because not everyone was issued a machine gun prior to the M-16 and when they were there was additional training. I have no idea if those Officers had received any training whatsoever but I have seen Departments who provide little if any and that can be scary.

and an AR 15 is not selective fire.......(not that I would care if it was)

 

[Argonaut]

Course I will. Cause the blanket statement that everyone just does mag dumps assumes most do it, based on anecdotal evidence that would require statistical evidence to back it up for it be an argument.

And even now with the U.S using the M4, they aren't training them to put the selector on auto (or is it burst now? someone answer please) and hope for the best.

Most are set to a 3 round burst today.

 

[Boboclown]

Ah, thanks for the answer.

 

[Argonaut]

Any knowledgeable person that finds himself in a gunfight only uses his pistol to make his way to a shotgun or rifle. Handguns are a poor weapon at best and only used as a last resort. (One place above a knife) Handguns are fun to shoot and train with but nobody in his right mind takes one into a gunfight on purpose.

 

[Doublesunder]

I agree but the only criminal thing was Jack shooting at (or towards) the deputies. When It happened, we were in Europe but as soon as they said both Deputies had fired, I surmised there was another problem.

Now we know the LE version anyways.

 

[Argonaut]

That's Now. I was on Active Duty when the M-16 entered service. Including 6 weeks of Basic with the M-14 and Two more with the M-16. I also did 13 months as the Division Smallarms Inspector for the 1st Cav. And currently I am an NRA RSO and have seen the Dump the Magazine after Magazine Shooting that I'm talking about. But, you are welcome to believe anything you want because you will anyway.

I have been thinking about your post. Your impression of the military is very different than today's reality. We have had no conscripted troops for 40 years. The people that are there are volunteers that are for the most part motivated to do well and succeed in service, not to simply endure and survive. Training is much more intense for the average soldier than in the draft years. Our troops are much more professional than in times of the draft and unlucky lottery numbers. My guys worked very hard to get into and stay in our profession and even people that couldn't shoot or lacked the physical or mental stamina were subject to either remedial training or being washed out. My world (in the military) was primarily in what is called today special ops and we had to work and trail hard just to keep our posisition. Some guys were better at one subject or another but I don't remember anyone that couldn't shoot your eyes out at 100 meters. There are plenty of jobs for less motivated troops without being point people and that is how it should be. My 101st airborne ranger step son and even my USCG rescue helicopter rescue son and daughter have had similar experiences as I did over 30 years ago. I have great confidence in the modern military personnel, there training and motivation. They are very different than the dope smoking conscripts of 40 years ago.

 

[johnny bob]

[. They are very different than the dope smoking conscripts of 40 years ago.[/QUOTE]
I was drafted and used the M14 through my 2 years of active duty. They had gotten rid of the M1. As I was getting DEROSed they were talking about the AR15 being issued. I didnt see any use of dope but did see a lot of alcohol use. In basic we had mostly Korean War vets and some WW2 vets as platoon/Company leaders. We did have some younger gungho leaders also. In my permenent unit we had as I remember 8-10 or more WW2 vets that had stayed in at a reduced rank from their war time rank in order to get a full 20-28 years of service for retirement. I dont think as a whole there was a better group of servicemen in the world. I'm sure as time changed the Army changed too but I will always remember we had the best of the best at that time. We had good leadership and I know that has been passed down through the years. As I read about our servicemen today I can only think they are being led by the best today. I guess what I am getting at is the pendulum does swing. YMMV Carry on.

 

[jsparks747]

The urban areas have not yet overtaken the rural with influence in the state.

And thank God for that! Have family in Idaho and they think the same way. Very interesting about the free range law though. Thanks for sharing that bit of info!