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Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by best defense, Jul 29, 2011.
Do I send the form into the feds first, or try to get approval from the local sheriff first?
You have to have CLEO sign off before you send your Form 1 to the ATF.
Thanks for the prompt reply
You going monolith or individual chamber style? I'm also working on development of my own. Doing the research and creating CAD models for the past few months.
I have a couple of ideas. One is to just make up a bunch of baffels and chambers and stack them into a tube. The other is a precision cut set of baffels that will slide into a tube in two pieces with precision alignment, and can be easily removed for cleaning.
I thnk I will probably start with the stacked baffels. It is the quickest, cheapest, and easiest method, and since I am not concerned with a so called tactical use of the suppressor, the size and weight are not a factor right now. I no longer have access to a CAD program, so that part of the design is on hold until I can find a copy of something I like and can afford.
If you haven't already been there, check out the "silencersmithing" area over at Silencer Talk.
if you do deside to put in the papaer work DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING around that can be made into one UNTILL you get the stamp to do so
You can get the ATF form 1 from here; ATF Online - Forms - Firearms You will also need form 5330.20; http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf The ATF form 1 is signed by the sheriff. Attach two passport sized photos to the form1 and send it in along with two fingerprint cards and a check for $200.
I make K or step cone baffles that are about .005" under tube ID. Ensure the tube is straight, end caps and baffles made square, and the silencer will align with the bore as long as the muzzle threads are cut straight.
I have not made any baffles. However I work in a machine shop, and I can get these small flat wheels of aluminum with a hub and a hole thru the middle from work. By themselves they would not make good baffles, but if I set them at an angle and drill holes from the center hole all the way thru to the other side, I can divert off a great deal of gas at each baffel. The hub acts as a spacer to keep the whels apart, and I can add another spacer between the wheels if I think I need more space between the baffles. After the holes are drilled, I can turn the outer diameter of the wheels to the appropriate size for the tube. This arrangement is probably not as efficient as K baffles, but it is cheap, and keeps machining to a minamum as the wheels are only made from scrap parts that were not good enough to sell to the customer.
I have already written to the ATF to get the forms, The only stumbling block is getting the finger print cards and getting it all to the right place in the right order. Then I will feel somewhat more comfortable experimenting once I get the permit to construct the devise. I understand that the ATF is going to want to know what the inside of the suppressor will consist of, but until I get all the parts together and get a tube cut, I don't know exactly how many baffles will fit in the tube.
Do you know how precise I have to be in my description of the inner parts when I send in my application?
Do not send plans or any kind of drawing. Your silencer is not a prototype. The ATF does not care what it looks like. They only care that you fill out the form correctly. Just fill in the length, caliber, model and serial number along with the rest of what they want and it will be approved. You can get finger print cards from the ATF forms website.
If you work in a machine shop, then you should machine baffles from bar stock instead of messing around with other stuff.
Once you finish the silencer, you can not experiment by making new baffles unless you pay another $200 tax. Each silencer part is by itself a silencer, so you get to make only the parts you need for one silencer only. Select a decent design and make it right the first time.
What firearm are you putting it on? You can find plenty of drawings on Silencer Talk . http://www.onlinemetals.com is a good source for metal.
I thought my first attempt should be something in the 22LR caliber. I bought a 22 several years ago that has a threaded barrel. I thought that would be a good enough platform for launching subsonic bullets.
Everything I have read about 223 says that making subsonic rounds for that caliber is really hard to do, and that the sonic crack from the rifle negates any attempt to supress it, so I am going to leave that up to the professionals. This whole thing is just a toy for me, so I want to try to do it all right and legal.
Some day I would like to attempt to make a suppressor for a 45ACP, but since I don't have a 45 barrel that would hold a suppressor, that will have to wait until I can come up with something that can be threaded. I was considering a single shot pistol. I have a Thompson Center Contender, but no barrel that would work for a suppressor.
Thanks for the advise on filling out the form.
You need to submit two copies of the Form 1, each printed on one piece of paper (front and back). If you print them on two pieces of paper they will get kicked back adding to your wait. One copy will be kept by the ATF for their records, the other will get a stamp and be returned to you. You only need one copy of the Certificate of Compliance (5330.20)
If you use a trust, llc, or corporation you can skip the fingerprint cards, photos and CLEO signoff, but will still need the 5330.20.
All cartridges no matter how fast they move can be effectively suppressed by a silencer. Just as no one expects a car muffler to reduce wind, engine, transmission and tire noise, no one who is knowledgeable about silencers will expect them to reduce anything but muzzle blast noise. Silencers only work on the machine's gas exhaust and guns are just noisy machines that can greatly benefit from a muffler.
If I can expect a 30 caliber silencer to reduce the muzzle noise of a supersonic 308 by 30 decibels, I can expect the same performance with subsonic ammo. Since the supersonic ammo is about ten times louder to begin with, it will remain ten times louder when suppressed as compared to the subsonic version.
Powder charge is one of the most important factors in how loud a suppressed firearm is. Add in the whip cracking noise of supersonic ammo and you just have one thing making noise that they silencer cannot (and was never intended to) deal with.
A 1” by 6” can made from aluminum with a stainless rear end cap and blast baffle is good for a 22lr. While a suppressed subsonic 22lr is less noisy than a subsonic 223, the subsonic 223 beats the subsonic 22lr by a wide margin when looking at power. For subsonic loads, a 40 grain 22lr will be about 98 ft-lbs, a 60 grain SSS at 700 fps (they are very slow even in a rifle) is 65 ft-lbs, a 223 with a 70 grain bullet gives 171 ft-lbs.
What contender barrel do you have? I have never seen one that cannot be adapted to use a silencer. They are very easy to thread even if they are octagon or have a vented rib. I have threaded several contender barrels including 22lr, 300 whisper, 44 mag, 17 MK IV, 22 K-hornet. I might do my 375 jdj and 7mm tcu.
This has opened my eyes! I was not aware of the fact that a "can" could be made by an individual.
Ok, I printed out the forms, and the website allowed me to fill in the forms before I printed them.
I did not see a finger print card form on the ATF web site, and I know I can get the cards from the sheriff's office for a price. I think I may just go get finger printed again at the sheriff's office. They charge $15.00 for as many cards as I want. Maybe I'll get some extras in case I want to do this again.
As far as the Contenders I own, one is 223 and one in 7X30 Waters. I never intended to suppress either one of those. I was thinking I might buy a barrel in something like 45ACP. I know it is easy to get that round to go subsonic, and I thought that it might work well for preditor control. As long as I am not shooting at game animals I believe it is legal here in Oregon. The one I really thought might be fun is an AR-15 in 45ACP.
Distribution Center Order Form Go to the lower right and scroll all the way down to select finger print cards.