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(Just because my background is checked does not mean I purchased or transferred. It just means my background was checked.)

You do realize that when you fill out a 4473 to have that background check, the serial number of the firearm you are buying goes right on it...We already have de-centralized registration on all purchases through dealers. Any further "strengthening" of that system just makes the registration more prevalent.

Oh, and "we, gun owners collectively" are just the law abiding citizens who are in the spotlight. It is already illegal for criminals to own firearms. The only positive legislation that could be passed would be the repeal of any and all restrictions on our 2nd Amendment Rights.
 
Why then can't a CWP be the background check and while their at it make the cwp/cpl or whatever each state wants to call it work in all states aka universal one. you already meet the same criteria, if you have obtained one. further more how they want to write this new law up makes no sense, will not apply to: family member, close friend or neighbor come on after all wer all related right friend, I meant neighbor. absolutely nuts and dont fall for it! you know they will ask for firearm info. whats the point to do it at all if that info. is not obtained.:huh:
 
If we had a benevolent, caring, nurturing government things could possibly be different. Unfortunately we do not. The opposite. In layman terms, it sucks.
 
You do realize that when you fill out a 4473 to have that background check, the serial number of the firearm you are buying goes right on it...We already have de-centralized registration on all purchases through dealers. Any further "strengthening" of that system just makes the registration more prevalent.

Oh, and "we, gun owners collectively" are just the law abiding citizens who are in the spotlight. It is already illegal for criminals to own firearms. The only positive legislation that could be passed would be the repeal of any and all restrictions on our 2nd Amendment Rights.

Yes I realize that. And that is kind of what I am suggesting that we allow BGC's on all transfers of firearms, even private, and get rid of the serial number portion. That is what I am saying I would be willing to do in the OP. That may weaken it, depending on ones viewpoint, of whether the BGC or registration is more of an infringement.

I agree we are the law abiding, but we are being categorized WITH the criminals. All the media has to do is change the parameters or slightly modify the definition of a word and make a statement about "the (broad) gun owners".

I wonder if we the responsible 2A supporters stopped watching news that portrayed gun ownership in a bad light, and stopped clicking on Piers Morgan youtube videos if the ratings could go down. Stop listening to the liberals to see what they are saying. Just ignore it in some way that they will not get the ratings. I wish there was a way. There I go again being an idealist that thinks we could make a difference.
 
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I was informed by the son of a major FFL brick and mortar retailer in the mid 1980s that ATF and the cali "justice dept" had been in with copiers and mass copied all 4473s on record.. defacto registration

Wake up people, these restrictions are aimed at your enslavement, not on protecting us from bad guys
 
I'm aware of a gun retailer who had a "nice looking female ATF agent" sweet talking him into releasing his 4473 books off premise so they could admittedly copy them. He said he felt basically over a barrel in that they would just come after him for something/anything if he didn't cooperate. It's easy for us to say we would stand up, but when it's your business and livelihood it becomes harder.
My point is no I don't have anything in my background - to my knowledge - that should make me fear the ATF having 4473's I filled out. If they changed the rules in the future as to what guns I could legally own or how many, the story might be different - but what the heck, we all know the Government would never do that. "They're our friend."
Butch
 
Tell that to the cali owners of AK detachable mag SKS rifles who were literally raided and their guns taken if found. I was long gone but never registered anything
 
Actually the sks in cali was just a letter in the mail, a check for 240 came later after turning it in.

I turned mines in after taking the firing pin and gluing the hole shut and also super gluing the chamber.

Also took minor parts out of it like springs and sears.

Turned it into lapd. They signed paperwork and I mailed it in, two weeks later a check came from Cali doj.
I bought the gun for fifty bucks so it was a win for me and lesson on gun registration.


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Actually the sks in cali was just a letter in the mail, a check for 240 came later after turning it in.

I turned mines in after taking the firing pin and gluing the hole shut and also super gluing the chamber.

Also took minor parts out of it like springs and sears.

Turned it into lapd. They signed paperwork and I mailed it in, two weeks later a check came from Cali doj.
I bought the gun for fifty bucks so it was a win for me and lesson on gun registration.


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So you caved.. others did not and were raided. I hid my hardware under a friends barn
 
Quote from "Father of Four":"One of the main reason the country is in the state it is in. Too many people choosing to look after only themselves when they know they should be looking out for others also. "

No I agree with you completely. I can't honestly tell you what I would do if they came to my door first before anyone else I knew. It's one thing to say for sure how you would react if they surrounded your neighborhood. It might be another if they picked off selected gun owners one at a time over a period of months with no set pattern and not much news coverage. Right now they appear able to do it with CS laws that slowly choke out certain guns or ammo.
I certainly don't think all gun owners in New York, Connecticut or California are cowards. And I think there is a tipping point where more people might react more violently.
I think the busines owner I knew felt trapped. He should have called an attorney at least and not just "caved" to the ATF. Most of not us use to people getting in our face. Experience makes us perhaps react better. Some people having been to war tend to react quicker and more assertively when pushed. Maybe that's why the Government fears them so much right now.
Butch
 
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I completely understand what all of you are saying. I may not agree with all of it. And whoever mentioned the car registration and not being a constitutional right, I do agree, and I should not have used that as an example.

All I am really trying to say is: If it was a background check only, then I have no beef with it. But once serial number, make and/or model are involved it is registration, and the problem begins. Some on here say a BGC is basically registration. I do not completely agree. (Just because my background is checked does not mean I purchased or transferred. It just means my background was checked.)

We, gun owners collectively, (as law abiding and criminals) are in the spotlight at the moment. We need to do what we can to first get out of this negative spotlight, and second get some positive legislation passed in our favor. I guess in the very back of my mind I see BGC's without registration a possible way of getting us out of that spotlight.

I have days, where if I read my original post I would say things like "You are crazy" or "You are one of the left, or part of the problem". So I see where the criticism is coming from. But you don't know me. I am so far from the left usually I can barely see the middle.

So you are saying that you have nothing to hide so you have no issue with background checks. Unfortunately, just like the tax code, details become slippery. Today you have nothing to hide in the eyes of the government. What will you say when a small change in some detail of some other unrelated law suddenly makes you a red flag on a background check.
I'll warn again about trusting these people who don't trust you.
 
Yes I realize that. And that is kind of what I am suggesting that we allow BGC's on all transfers of firearms, even private, and get rid of the serial number portion. That is what I am saying I would be willing to do in the OP. That may weaken it, depending on ones viewpoint, of whether the BGC or registration is more of an infringement.


The only positive outcome is to have all checks removed. The 4473 needs to be done away with completely. If you are a restricted person, then you need to be in prison. If you do the wrong thing with a gun, you need to go to prison.

The problem is not the people, it is the punishment. A person can commit murder, rape, or even horrible acts on children, with the knowledge that they wont likely serve their entire sentence...Just those 3 crimes alone should be punished by death.

No more background checks, no more compromise.
 

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