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I will never use UPS again.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Starship, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. Starship

    Starship NE Portland Active Member

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    Sent a handgun to TX via UPS. Was told when I got there that it would have to go "overnight." Apparently this is UPS's policy. It happened to be a Friday and I said I'm not sure if the business is open on Saturday. I was told it wouldn't be delivered until Monday anyway. I said that overnight would be Saturday and that Monday would be 2nd day air (at best), which I was expecting to pay when I went there.

    Nope, has to go overnight and not their fault that it won't be delivered until Monday. I had gone out of my way to go to a customer care center (the only ones that can ship guns) and finally said just send it.

    I spent the better part of a half-hour looking at the UPS web site trying to find a way to respond to customer service. I finally found a hiddden away contact that only allowed you to send 500 CHARACTERS (not words). Soooo, I wrote to UPS corporate. Got a call today from a lady asking me what the problem was (the letter was 2 pages long detailing the problem, my frustration with the issues involved and the service received). I told her my issues with the charges, the customer service at the center I was sending the gun from and my feeling about their unconcern for the customer.

    She did't think I should be complaining, even after I told her I had contacted FexEx asked about shipping the same exact box, contents and insurance. FedEx said it would take 4 or 5 days and cost $17.50 (UPS charged me $60!!!)
    She asked me what I wanted her to do and I said give me my money back. She said she would have to ask her supervisor and call me back.

    Now there is some more customer service. They have a person call a customer, who has sent a very detailed and explanatory letter, and the person calling has absolutely no authority to settle the complaint.

    If I don't hear back I guess I'll have to write another letter.....
     
  2. Starship

    Starship NE Portland Active Member

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    Just heard back from UPS, same lady.

    Gee, sorry we won't be doing anything about your complaint. No adjustment of any kind.

    Attitude was that they really don't care...period.
     
  3. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    when you are 1 of really only 3 major shippers in the US, you can afford to not care some.

    Sorry they treated you like crap.
     
  4. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Well as far as I know, fedex requires handguns to go via air too, but with both UPS and fedex, you should have the option to do 2 (or maybe 3) day delivery. I believe that their policies are that handguns must not go via ground shipping. (long guns can go either)
     
  5. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    I know it seems like a hassle, but I have talked with UPS and Fedex about this. The main reason according to the person i talked to for both of them is theft. Guns are a highly targeted item, and when they are stolen it is a lot of paperwork and searching for them.

    When they loose your moms tv, they just pay for it and hope it shows up and let there insurance pick it up.

    When they loose a gun, they have to actually look for it. This takes a lot of man time, and as we all know time is money. If you have 10 people making $25 an hour looking for a gun for one hour, you just spent $250 on 1 package.

    They have the rule to minimize liability exposure.

    It sucks, but they are a business. And businesses that loose money do not stay in business long.
     
  6. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    Yep - the joys of shipping handguns!

    I paid $113 to ship a Mare's Leg "pistol" via Fedex that I sold on GunsAmerica.
    I doubt Fedex would really have shipped it by any means other than overnight either.
    As previously stated, unfortunately you have no choice really.
     
  7. Sun195

    Sun195 Pugetropolis, WA Well-Known Member

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  8. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Theft is the reason. I remember when I worked for BE Hodgdon Corp in the late 70's it was before they deregulated the shipping carriers and there were certain states that we could not ship UPS into from KS. If we shipped into TX or OK we had to use a specific carrier (it's been so long ago I can't remember the name) and they stamped a big red Star on every package with a firearm in it. It was like screaming PLEASE STEAL ME. It was a standing joke with the shipping guys about how many of the firearms would actually make it to the dealers.
     
  9. NoAim

    NoAim Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    You do have a choice.

    Some fun facts:

    If you are an individual trying to ship a handgun:
    - USPS does not allow handguns to be shipped at all
    - FedEx requires overnight delivery
    - UPS required overnight delivery

    However, if you go through an FFL and have them ship it for you:
    - USPS allows handguns to be shipped at any speed
    - FedEx still requires overnight delivery (all firearms)
    - UPS still requires overnight delivery (handguns only)

    So in short, FedEx sucks for all firearm shipments. UPS is okay for non-handgun. If it's a handgun, the cheapest way is to make friends with your local FFL, and ask them to ship it for you. It'll be cheaper for you and you get to contribute a little to your FFL's rainy day fund.
     
  10. NoAim

    NoAim Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Nope. FedEx and UPS expressly say ALL handguns must go overnight (in their respective services). UPS makes no statment for long guns (they can go ground). FedEx requires ALL firearms to go overnight.

    ETA: I messed up. FedEx will allow long guns to go Ground.
     
  11. Starship

    Starship NE Portland Active Member

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    Just a note, when I called FedEx I told them the gun was not in working order (that's why I was sending it back to the manf) and in three parts (mag, slide, and frame), the girl I was talking to said....Oh, you're shippiing gun parts, they can go anyway you want to send them. I could still insure the parts for the total value of the gun.

    I guess what aggravates me the most is the complete lack of customer service. I'm a businessman and I can't imagine treating a customer the way I was treated, and then handling the complaint the way I was once again treated.

    At least at this point FedEx offered some customer service and guess who's going to get my business until they prove to me they shouldn't. UPS has already proven it.

    BTW- I never ship a gun so that it can be identified as one from the shipping carton, label or anything else. I will even doctor the address on the shipping label so it doesn't say Smith&Wesson (please steal this gun).
     
  12. kentsboots

    kentsboots Oregon Member

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    I used to work at the fed ex hub in portland. Couldnt wear any brand name shoes or jackets or hats (nike, stuff like that) and everyone got patted down by the guard when you leave.
     
  13. Seattle206

    Seattle206 Beacon Hill Member

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    UPS sucks, avoid whenever you can.
     
  14. Dan-Dee Sales Inc

    Dan-Dee Sales Inc Sweet Home, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    they may suck, but your options are limited.
     
  15. Searcher451

    Searcher451 Oregon Member

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    +1.

    I had a bad experience with UPS once that involved something similar. I had to pay a premium rate to have the package delivered ontime, they screwed it up and didn't deliver it until three days too late for the receiver, and when I called to complain and asked for a full refund, they refused ... again and again and again. I finally got a lawyer friend to write a letter, just on the principal involved (I took him to lunch for his services) and eventually received a check that refunded the amount I paid over and above normal ground shipping. It wasn't what I wanted -- ****, it didn't even cover the lunch with the lawyer -- but it was better than nothing.

    I must say, however, that I've used UPS many, many hundreds of times and have had no complaints whatsoever with their service on every other occasion save this one. I wasn't happy about it when it happened, but I've used them many times since and will continue to do so in the future. As Jack indicates, you don't have a lot of other options.
     
  16. python287

    python287 Neskowin,OR Active Member

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    Go to Planet Feedback - you can then send a letter by email to the CEO or President of UPS. Always go to the top - as you know SH** rolls downhill - it never rolls up. Tell the CEO of your problem and you should get an answer. Also send the same person a letter thru the mail - they will respond. !
     
  17. dr*pop

    dr*pop Central OR Member

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    A long time ago I had a $10,000 custom made engagement ring stolen from WITHIN the UPS warehouse on an overnight shipment. I did get an "we're sorry" and flowers. And UPS does not deliver in Saturday...
     
  18. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Actually, we do deliver on Saturday.

    I'm sorry your ring was stolen. I am curious...did you insure it? Per federal law as a common carrier we are only liable for up to $100 unless additional insurance is purchased. This is standard for the shipping industry, not just us. This in no way excuses what happened, but the fact is that anyone who chooses to ship a $10,000 item.... with any carrier... should really consider the small additional expense of insuring it.
     
  19. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    UPS and FedEs are almost interchangeable, nearly identical. Rates are so close it doesn' matter, policies the same, and customer service is very close. On any given day, anyone could have a problem with one, or the other. Next week it will be reversed.

    One thing that drives me toward UPS... when I am the consignee.... I've had the same route driver for 25 years, he knows me (I even learned of the death of a friend I'd lost touch with through him... he knew I knew him and told me) knows where to leave stuff when I'm not here, will bend the rules a bit and leave stuff he really shouldn't..... and comes in the same two hour window every day he's got something for me. FedEx, the drivers are almost never the same, they are hardnosed when it comes to the rules, leaving stuff, etc.... and can come any time from 8 AM to 6 PM, making it a whole day stuck at home when I've got a signature release parcel due in.

    What SUCKS is the stupid regulations around shipping stuff.... WHY can't we just use USPS to ship any firearm? They could require it go to an FFL Dealer, just like when its an over the counter deal. Their Flat Rate Box goes to any US Zip for twelve bucks.... in two, maybe three days. ALL packages with firearms inside them MUST be in an unmarked package, no indication of contents. SO, how can the guys on the line figure out which one's got a gun to steal it? I don't get that one at all. USPS don't seem to have that problem when shipping FROM an FFL. Are UPS and FedEx that prone to employee theft? And what makes overnight so much less vulnerable to theft? They all seem to go through the same system.....

    I have also been told that, in certain cases, both UPS and FedEx will set up a dealer to be able to ship two day or three day select air..... thus reducing the cost to about half of overnight. WHY won't they let US do that? It is their stupid policies, the fear of arms, and that sort of thing, that perpetuates this sort of nonsense. If guns can be stolen in UPS/FedEx ground shipments, so can anything else. If they can be stolen in the Ground system, they can also be stolen in the Air system.

    These private common carriers have set their own policy apart from legal requirements. It is Federal Regulations (18 CFR) that prohibit handguns in the mails... though long guns are OK. Which is stupid anyway, as those long, skinny, heavy packages can't be anything BUT a gun. Throw a handgun into the Priority Flat Rate Box, and who knows.. maybe a rock collection, maybe a socket set, maybe a cordless hand drill, maybe a S&W 66 or a HK USP. There doesn't seem to be a problem with licensed dealers having guns stolen through the mails..... stupid feds..... I really think UPS/FedEx have their policy becuase they know we've got no cheap option because of it. Its either Overnight Air or not ship it.

    now it IS interesting that PARTS can be shipped UPS Ground.... by a private party. Hmmm... new schtick. Pull the slide and barrel, wrap it all up separate, and ship it UPS Ground.When the dumb computer askes what it is, type in "tools". Honest answer.....
     
  20. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    We do offer Saturday Air service to most locations....perhaps the location you sent the gun to was a remote rural area where this service was not available.

    My understanding is that the "overnight only" policy is for liability reasons....a stolen or missing gun that was subsequently used in a crime could expose UPS to a huge legal lawsuit. Overnight shipping reduces the risks of theft by minimizing the number of times that the item is handled and sorted. I'm not saying that it is fair or that I even agree with the policy, but in our litigious, lawsuit-prone society it is a precaution that UPS's own lawyers deemed necessary.

    Theft can be an issue for us because we are frequently targeted by gangs and organized groups of criminals who get jobs with us for the sole purpose of ripping us off. Much like the smugglers who use "mules" (typically women with no criminal record) to sneak drugs in, these gangs target certain packages for "overlabeling" whereby a person with no record gets a sorting or unloading job at UPS and starts placing phony labels on the desired packages to have them routed to apartments rented by the gang for that purpose. Its an elaborate scam, and it only takes a few days for a gang to nail us for many thousands of dollars worth of merchandise....at which time they leave the apartment, the inside accomplice quits their job, and the whole group just vanishes.

    If you want to blame "UPS" go ahead....but save some blame for the lawyers and the criminals who make such precautions necessary.