I sure wish they'd make a [Fill in the Blank]

[The Heretic]

I like that concept too. There is the problem of how to head space the cartridges. The .45 Colt chamber precludes the shoulder necessary to headspace the .45 ACP so it would require something like half moon clips to head space. That leaves too much cylinder to frame gap for the .45 Colt. Interchangeable cylinders is how that's solved in single action Ruger Blackhawks but it's a little more difficult in a double action.

There have been a number of revolvers, both custom and manufactured, that have allowed .45 ACP in a 45 Colt chamber without moonclips. For a while S&W made a 9mm revolver which did not require moonclips.

I would be satisfied if S&W just made a scandium 4" revolver in .45 Colt and then I could send that to one of the custom gunsmiths who convert them to use moonclips. But converting a 329PD to .45 Colt is just too expensive, if possible.

Pretty safe bet that the reason those chamberings aren't made any more is because they didn't sell. Tying up material and manufacturing capacity on something that sits on the shelf is not a winning strategy from the manufacturers standpoint.

It isn't the chamberings - .308 and .223 - it is probably that the models, which are lever action carbines with rails and flash hiders, jsut are not popular enough.

 

[Ownerus]

There have been a number of revolvers, both custom and manufactured, that have allowed .45 ACP in a 45 Colt chamber without moonclips. For a while S&W made a 9mm revolver which did not require moonclips.

I'm unfamiliar with those. How did they accomplish head spacing the .45ACP (or 9mm) without a chamber shoulder or moon clips? Perhaps something on the order of the spring-finger ejector of the Medusa to engage the rim?

It isn't the chamberings - .308 and .223 - it is probably that the models, which are lever action carbines with rails and flash hiders, jsut are not popular enough.

You said chamberings* so that's what I addressed. Other bells and whistles like rails or flash hiders can have a similar effect if they're not the "right" combination. Either way, it's ultimately market driven (except of course when there's government interference).

*My wife calls me Mr. Literal Person. She, on the other hand, uses what I call "interchangeable words".... "you know what I mean" she says. Makes for some interesting conversations

 

[The Heretic]

I'm unfamiliar with those. How did they accomplish head spacing the .45ACP (or 9mm) without a chamber shoulder or moon clips? Perhaps something on the order of the spring-finger ejector of the Medusa to engage the rim?

 

[The Heretic]

My understanding (I've never shot/owned one) of the revolvers that require moon clips is that you can shoot them without the moon clip as they do headspace on the rim and the cylinder is setup that way, but extraction can be difficult, especially if the case is steel or aluminum.

 

[Argonaut]

My understanding (I've never shot/owned one) of the revolvers that require moon clips is that you can shoot them without the moon clip as they do headspace on the rim and the cylinder is setup that way, but extraction can be difficult, especially if the case is steel or aluminum.

that is correct. The clips only simplify the extraction of fired casings. Otherwise you use a little rod or nail type tool to push them out individually. Auto rim ammunition is designed with a rim that the extractor can catch, it can not be used with moon clips.

 

[The Heretic]

that is correct. The clips only simplify the extraction of fired casings.

I meant to say they headspace on the mouth of the cartridge.

I would guess for using .45 ACP in a .45 Colt, that this would not be possible as .45 Colt is longer, so it would need the moonclips to hold the cartridge in the right relationship to the firing pin.

 

[Argonaut]

I meant to say they headspace on the mouth of the cartridge.

I would guess for using .45 ACP in a .45 Colt, that this would not be possible as .45 Colt is longer, so it would need the moonclips to hold the cartridge in the right relationship to the firing pin.

That is also true and the reason interchangeable revolvers 45LC/45ACP come with a different cylinder for each. I have fired 45 auto rim ammunition in a 45LC chamber without any issues except some auto rim ammo has a very thick rim that doesn't want to clear the rear cylinder/frame spacing in some revolvers.

 

[Will_White]

Integrally suppressed AR uppers so we can have a quiet and compact AR without having to deal with the added costs and hassles of SBRs.

 

[Argonaut]

Integrally suppressed AR uppers so we can have a quiet and compact AR without having to deal with the added costs and hassles of SBRs.

All that takes is a can that is screwed and pinned on (or welded?) the same as the long flash hiders that make short barrels over the 16" minimum. I am sure my guys at Gemtech can fix you up.

 

[djharteloo]

I wish Smith and Wesson would make a double action J frame "kit gun" type revolver in .22magnum with a .22lr cylinder thats interchange able.

 

[djharteloo]

HK VP10 (VP9 but in 10mm)
HK VP45
US made AK74 parts kit builds
Galil parts kit builds
More rifle/shotgun combo guns (savage 24, baikal, chiappa type "do it all" guns)

 

[Argonaut]

HK VP10 (VP9 but in 10mm)
HK VP45
US made AK74 parts kit builds
Galil parts kit builds
More rifle/shotgun combo guns (savage 24, baikal, chiappa type "do it all" guns)

How many combination guns do you want? I have 6 all of different brands and know of at least another dozen manufacturers. I bought my brother a Valmet 30-06/12 gauge
with an additional set of 12 gauge trap barrels earlier this year. My best gun is an August Schuyler 1938 12 gauge over 7X57R but my Blaser is great as is my Savage 2400 both in 12/308. My Merkel combination gun is actually a drilling like my Krieghof.

 

[Ownerus]

There have been a number of revolvers, both custom and manufactured, that have allowed .45 ACP in a 45 Colt chamber without moonclips.......

I meant to say they headspace on the mouth of the cartridge.

I would guess for using .45 ACP in a .45 Colt, that this would not be possible as .45 Colt is longer, so it would need the moonclips to hold the cartridge in the right relationship to the firing pin.

Now you get it. As I replied before the first quote,

.... There is the problem of how to head space the cartridges. The .45 Colt chamber precludes the shoulder necessary to headspace the .45 ACP so it would require something like half moon clips to head space. That leaves too much cylinder to frame gap for the .45 Colt. Interchangeable cylinders is how that's solved in single action Ruger Blackhawks but it's a little more difficult in a double action.

The moon clip (as well as the thick rim of the .45 Auto Rim) don't just engage the ejector. They also function to control head space. Some of the early 1917 revolvers didn't have a proper shoulder in the chamber since they were made to operate with half moon clips. A cartridge could fall into the chamber out of reach of the firing pin without the half moon clip.

A lot of the Webley MkVI revolvers, originally chambered for the rimmed .455 ctg, were modified after importation by facing off the back of the cylinder to allow their use with .45ACP and half moon clips. I had one that couldn't be fired without the clip because the cartridge could fall below flush in the cylinder, putting it way out of the reach of the firing pin.

 

[Argonaut]

Now you get it. As I replied before the first quote,


The moon clip (as well as the thick rim of the .45 Auto Rim) don't just engage the ejector. They also function to control head space. Some of the early 1917 revolvers didn't have a proper shoulder in the chamber since they were made to operate with half moon clips. A cartridge could fall into the chamber out of reach of the firing pin without the half moon clip.

A lot of the Webley MkVI revolvers, originally chambered for the rimmed .455 ctg, were modified after importation by facing off the back of the cylinder to allow their use with .45ACP and half moon clips. I had one that couldn't be fired without the clip because the cartridge could fall below flush in the cylinder, putting it way out of the reach of the firing pintle ...................................The first revolver I ever purchased (50 years ago) was a Colt 1917 ln 45ACP, I still own and fire both the S&W and Colt versions along with a fine M1955 Smith I purchased new in the 70's. I have never seen or heard of one that required use of moon clips to function. That defeats the puropse they were designed for. I totally disagree with your assertion. As for a modified firearm, all bets are off......who knows about them?

 

[Ownerus]

I said some early 1917s. I believe it was the Colts where this was an issue. I also recall reading years ago that in the runup production in wartime, some Long Colt cylinders were used since the 1917 was essentially the 1909 which was already being produced in .45 Colt. This could be flawed memory or it could be correct but it IS possible and not disproved by your single sample.

 

[Argonaut]

I said some early 1917s. I believe it was the Colts where this was an issue. I also recall reading years ago that in the runup production in wartime, some Long Colt cylinders were used since the 1917 was essentially the 1909 which was already being produced in .45 Colt. This could be flawed memory or it could be correct but it IS possible and not disproved by your single sample.

My single example? I have owned maby a dozen since my first one, I only have 3 right now. How many have you owned. In the early WW1 period they didn't even issue moon clips with the revolvers. I have an original 1917 US Army field manual for the Colt pistol. There is no mention of moon clips at all. It talks about the use of both rimmed and rimless ammo also the need to push fired rimless brass out with an "appliance" with a few recommendations on what could be used.

 

[Diamondback]

Integrally suppressed AR uppers so we can have a quiet and compact AR without having to deal with the added costs and hassles of SBRs.

Talk to Daniel Defense, they got 'em.

 

[Ownerus]

Argonaut:
I stand corrected. Based more on the manual than what is still a limited number of samples. I may have read an old wives tale years ago that made a certain amount of sense. I see even wikipedia says "citation needed" for what is essentially the same story I read long ago.

 

[Argonaut]

Argonaut:
I stand corrected. Based more on the manual than what is still a limited number of samples. I may have read an old wives tale years ago that made a certain amount of sense. I see even wikipedia says "citation needed" for what is essentially the same story I read long ago.

I can imagine a worn, modified or damaged cylinder could have a problem but not how they were designed or manufactured.

 

[djharteloo]

How many combination guns do you want? I have 6 all of different brands and know of at least another dozen manufacturers. I bought my brother a Valmet 30-06/12 gauge
with an additional set of 12 gauge trap barrels earlier this year. My best gun is an August Schuyler 1938 12 gauge over 7X57R but my Blaser is great as is my Savage 2400 both in 12/308. My Merkel combination gun is actually a drilling like my Krieghof.

I wish there were more affordable options readily available. Right now the only ones I can find brand new on a shelf are 22lr and 22 magnum over 410 or 20 gauge from savage or chiappa.