I learned something new today...

[Flopsweat]

This used to happen to me a lot when I first started shooting semi-auto handguns. I probably got a half dozen different guns to do it. As I learned how much force to use, it went away. Hasn't happened in years and I still shoot some of the same guns.

 

[CLT65]

My M1 Garand does it.

Oh, sorry, that's a different discussion.

 

[Flopsweat]

My M1 Garand does it.

Oh, sorry, that's a different discussion.

"Thumbs up"

 

[HB of CJ]

I had a modified Colt made 1911 .45 that did it. Asked the gunsmith who built the gun how and why. He did not know. It just did it with a loaded mag slammed hard into the mag well. Since it did not seem to matter to me I left it alone since I'm left handed. This was in about 1980 or so. Long since sold off the Colt. Wish now I had not. The new owner liked that particular problem or feature. There you have it.

 

[Koda]

it happens because the mag spring or mag follower (or both) doesn't fully engage the slide stop after the last round is spent. Its the mags fault.

 

[mcfoto]

I have that "feature" on my XDm. After having some first round not firing issues, I diagnosed that I was not seating the magazine properly and overcompensated by slamming in the next magazine. Now that I have more experience with the gun, I've learned the right amount of pressure required. However, I have used this affect deliberately during competition to save the trouble of racking the slide.

 

[Koda]

the problem with relying on this to happen is that its not consistent and not every gun does it. In a practical application this could delay you getting your gun back into action when you think the slide has been released when it hasnt. Its also not how semis are designed to load a round because at slide stop, the slide is not at its rear-most position possibly compromising loading the top round in a fresh mag (which is under the most tension...).

As best as Ive tried to maintain the mags, it still happens occasionally though. Makes me want to try less force in emergency reloads. Problem is all the training out there always shows us to "beat the gun up" when tapping the mag into place. Maybe Im overdoing it though... will have to experiment.

 

[Pops1911]

Has anyone gotten a 1911 to behave this way?

A 1911 is too wise and sophisticated to do this. Besides, St. John of Blessed Memory would be rolling over in his grave should this ever happen. ;-)

 

[PiratePast40]

My M&P Pro does it if I slam the mag in with some force. I consider it a positive feature. Really don't know if it causes unwanted wear similar to using the slide lock as a release button without pulling back the slide to remove the pressure on it.

 

[Koda]

Really don't know if it causes unwanted wear similar to using the slide lock as a release button without pulling back the slide to remove the pressure on it.

yes it does because it focuses the wear on the very tip of the notch in the slide.
When this happens its because the mag follower didn't push the slide stop up far enough its just barely grabbing the slide, thats why the jolt from tapping the mag in place easily released the slide.

 

[EPS]

it happens because the mag spring or mag follower (or both) doesn't fully engage the slide stop after the last round is spent. Its the mags fault.

I thought the same thing but my glock will do it with old or brand new Mag's but like someone else said the way they build the Mag 's these days to hold more rounds I'm pretty sure your right it's the Mag's fault or it could be THE RUSSIANS

 

[cigars]

Slap and rack? Depends if you look at this as a problem or not. I kind of like it personally. Saves you a half a second that may make all the difference in certain situations. I've never considered this a problem. Your mileage may vary. Cheers.

 

[PiratePast40]

yes it does because it focuses the wear on the very tip of the notch in the slide.
When this happens its because the mag follower didn't push the slide stop up far enough its just barely grabbing the slide, thats why the jolt from tapping the mag in place easily released the slide.

Interesting. I'll need to start looking at schematics again to wrap my hand around this. I have 5 mags that I always use. Probably around 10k rounds down the pipe with those. I'll compare them to new mags that I haven't used.

 

[Koda]

Slap and rack? Depends if you look at this as a problem or not. I kind of like it personally. Saves you a half a second that may make all the difference in certain situations. I've never considered this a problem. Your mileage may vary. Cheers.

thats "tap and rack" soldier... (kidding)

yeah, I look at it as a problem because while it could be nice the gun is not designed that way and its not consistent. You dont want to train that way and rely on it happening.

 

[EPS]

And you could get a failure to feed I got one failure to feed on the M@P that I was shooting on Friday out of ten or so Mag's but it was a rental gun so it was well used with well used mags

 

[EPS]

the problem with relying on this to happen is that its not consistent and not every gun does it. In a practical application this could delay you getting your gun back into action when you think the slide has been released when it hasnt. Its also not how semis are designed to load a round because at slide stop, the slide is not at its rear-most position possibly compromising loading the top round in a fresh mag (which is under the most tension...).

As best as Ive tried to maintain the mags, it still happens occasionally though. Makes me want to try less force in emergency reloads. Problem is all the training out there always shows us to "beat the gun up" when tapping the mag into place. Maybe Im overdoing it though... will have to experiment.

Lol that's great I haven't seen that one before I like the part where he talks about the boob's at the range LOL

 

[titsonritz]

Design feature or flaw? Never experienced this, but then again I'm usually not that aggressive with reloads. Now I'll need to do some testing to see if I can get any of mine to do this...

Has anyone gotten a 1911 to behave this way?

Yes, it is most prevalent with the modern polymer pistols, but it is possible with any autoloader.

 

[cigars]

thats "tap and rack" soldier... (kidding)

yeah, I look at it as a problem because while it could be nice the gun is not designed that way and its not consistent. You dont want to train that way and rely on it happening.

Depends who was slapping that mag up in there. Back in the day when I was unit armorer it was common practice with the 1911's. While normal procedure is to insert a mag and give it a secure tap, most of the guys just went full mongo on them. It was a just a matter of physics, not parts or design failure. Nothing unusual ever came up during my Q-services because of the practice. Info the same with my current 1911, Kahr, glockenspiel, SR22, etc.
Some take to it better than others. Like in said, your mileage may vary. It boils down to physics and semantics.

 

[Koda]

Depends who was slapping that mag up in there. Back in the day when I was unit armorer it was common practice with the 1911's. While normal procedure is to insert a mag and give it a secure tap, most of the guys just went full mongo on them. It was a just a matter of physics, not parts or design failure. Nothing unusual ever came up during my Q-services because of the practice. Info the same with my current 1911, Kahr, glockenspiel, SR22, etc.
Some take to it better than others. Like in said, your mileage may vary. It boils down to physics and semantics.

perhaps it might depend on who.... but when it happens that slide stop isn't holding onto the slide very much just barely so it really doesn't take much force ("tap") to jolt the slide stop and thus drop the slide when seating a mag. This is regarding my experience using a 1911 but since this is happening on all other pistol brands this isn't an 1911 issue.

one theory I have is that most all of my 1911 mags are 8 rds, which isn't the way it was originally designed. I'm assuming more capacity = less spring rate to make room, weaker spring = less force to engage the slide stop. I will have to experiment training with my 2 original 7 rounders.

 

[cigars]

perhaps it might depend on who.... but when it happens that slide stop isn't holding onto the slide very much just barely so it really doesn't take much force ("tap") to jolt the slide stop and thus drop the slide when seating a mag. This is regarding my experience using a 1911 but since this is happening on all other pistol brands this isn't an 1911 issue.

one theory I have is that most all of my 1911 mags are 8 rds, which isn't the way it was originally designed. I'm assuming more capacity = less spring rate to make room, weaker spring = less force to engage the slide stop. I will have to experiment training with my 2 original 7 rounders.

With an extended magazine it might be different result. With standard mags, when you have the slide locked back and slap that thing in there, you are transferring shock directly into the frame. That shock seeks out other avenues of escape. When you have components that are meant to have play, the transfer of energy works it's way around to the components that wiggle. think about how little effort it takes to release that slide catch with your thumb normally. Sure, slide stops wear out, I get it. That's not what I'm talking about though.