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I know this sounds crazy but how about a liberal or democrat gun rights forum

Discussion in 'Questions, Problems, & Feedback' started by eldbillbo, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Ok I know this sounds crazy and I am not a liberal. But keep in mind Oregon is unique in that is the land of the tree hugging lumberjack , ambidextrous extremist and the gun toting liberal .

    I have seen them post and they get can get some flak even from myself. But Oregon does have quite a few of them not calling them all liberals sometimes they are just people that hate republicans . I don't care too much for the republican politicians myself but in most cases they are better than the alternative to preserving our 2nd Amendment right but lets put aside voting and work on those who are in control.

    Many gun toting democrats won't be part of organizations like NRA because the NRA sponcers Gun friendly politicians which happen to be mostly republicans .

    Thing is we are in a liberal state and the liberal politicians are not going to listen to those who did not vote for them and some of them don't realize there are lots of gun toting voting democrats whose voices don't even get heard.

    So I am thinking a forum just for them . With a couple rules added no haters of any kind allowed that means no anti democrats and also on the flip side no trolls you know those guys on the anti gun groups payrolls that join sites like this to stir the pot and post negative views on all gun advocate groups.

    I would think that something like this could grow into a organization or bring information about existing organizations that can put pressure on politicians to leave the 2nd Amendment alone.

    Just a random thought we are going to need all the help we can get to keep our freedom
     
  2. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Gun toting libs are free to post here or anywhere else.

    Why do they need to be catered to as some sort of special needs group? Oh yeah, I forgot...because that is what they are used to...being catered to. Most all forums tolerate their love of puppies, their hatred of God and their overwhelming support for killing that icky little blob growing in a human womb.

    If the libs are so pro-gun, maybe THEY should stand up and tell THEIR elected representatives to STFU and leave issues related to the ownership of firearms ALONE! But no, it's not so much the case anymore than it is the case with peace loving moderate Muslims and their overwhelming, public verbal denouncement of violence in the name of Islam.

    I am fully aware of the game they play when they come onto a gunboard. Continuously spouting their Marxist rhetoric while keeping their toes one atomic particle away from the ban hammer line. Every once in a while throwing a bone to those ignorant of the game by commenting on something firearms related...One drop of poison in the glass of water isn't so bad is it...just being a good little tolerant Conservative, right?

    Interesting how the liberal term "hater" was used as well...as if "hating" an idea, or concept is anathema. IMO, it is part of the narrative to get people used to that term for the sole purpose of shutting down an argument when the losing side, loses traction for their argument. If you disagree, well then maybe your shouldn't be such a "hater"

    :D
     
  3. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I kind of have to agree with 308. They're free to post anywhere they want, heck, they're free to start their own 'liberal gun owners' forum if they like. My problem is that liberal gun owners don't seem to be doing much to convince THEIR politicians to leave our 2nd amendment rights alone. They keep voting in anti-gun politicians, then don't say word one to them when they go after our rights.

    As you stated, it's highly unlikely that liberal politicians will listen to anything someone who didn't vote for them has to say, so, it rests in the hands of the liberal gun owners here in Oregon to make a difference. But I wonder, where are they? Are they rallying on the steps in Salem? Are they demanding their liberal politician friends leave these rights alone? If they're out there, I only hear one thing from them...crickets

    I know plenty of liberals and plenty of conservatives. One thing I can say with absolute certainty, it's the conservatives that stand up for their gun rights, by a HUGE margin. And that, I think, is why liberal gun owners get such a bad rap. This shouldn't be a liberal/conservative issue. It's an American issue. These rights should matter to both. So why is it that only conservatives stand up for these rights? If the liberals want to be heard, they better start speaking up, soon.
     
  4. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I think we do far too much labeling as it is, both of ourselves and of others. It serves no positive purpose. There's no way I'm going to divide people by those labels here :)
     
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  5. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I have several Gun toting liberal friends ( I live in Seattle after all) I can honestly say I enjoy our discussions. I have one buddy that we are so far opposites that we agree on pretty much nothing political. However we still get along great.

    Any "Us and them" when it comes to gun culture is bad. What we need are as many liberal folks as we can get fighting for our cause. We need shared ground, Not alienation
     
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  6. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think I get what you're saying - that you've no interest in making this site about labels, and I definitely agree with you about that.

    But I think there is no way to avoid labels in general. Each of us can be identified by a good number of labels, not only our political leanings, but our religious (or lack thereof) beliefs, our race and nationality, our jobs, where we live, what music we like. I don't think labels in general are bad, it's just something that is. Is it fair to condemn everyone that's under a certain label? Sometimes, I would argue, yes. Nazi. Mass Murderer. You get the idea.

    My point in the post above is that there is clearly one group that fights more for our rights to gun ownership while another group clearly fights against those rights. Pretending that rift doesn't exist, or failing to acknowledge it, is to ignore one of the biggest reasons we're all worried about losing our rights. I wish we could be united on this front, but they are the ones that make the choice not to support our rights by basically remaining silent on the issue and by going along with the politicians. And quite honestly, I have no problem calling them out for that. If they wish to prove me an anyone else wrong by becoming vocal proponents of the 2nd amendment and publicly calling out politicians that go after those rights, then maybe we can dump that label as a discussion point. I for one, would love it if we could come together, liberals, conservatives and everyone in-between to stand up and fight for these rights. If and when that happens, I'll happily drop the label discussion.
     
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  7. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    If all of the liberal forum members use the ignore function to block everyone else, they will have their own exclusive place, and if they decide to return, all four liberal members can just unblock the rest of society.
     
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  8. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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  9. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I just really don't care for labels in general, here or anywhere else.

    I think it's imperative that people stop worrying about being so politically correct. Being plain spoken and calling it as that person perceives something (be it a person, situation, whatever) is the only way to keep people and society honest. Without taking an honest look at an issue and it's causes, there's no way to improve, overcome, or 'solve' it.

    This in mind, one cannot refute the fact that a group with one label has generally fought for our rights, while one has generally fought against them. The problem with generalizations (created by labels) is they're usually used in a negative way to vilify a group of people. People get these generalizations about others wrong nearly as often as they get them right, and there's no honesty in that. Let each person and situation stand or fall on their own. What good does it do for us to say 'liberals are against gun rights'? If they want to attach that label to themselves, let them. We're fighting the same fight no matter who our opposition is.

    This whole figuring out who's the most or least for a cause (such as the 2A) is a tactical mistake that gun owners and many other groups have made throughout history. It is exclusionary in nature, when usually the goal is to increase influence by build a larger group. Would-be, or even could-be, supporters are now alienated, and we are no better. It amazes me how many groups with causes continue to eat their own.

    By pre-labeling people who could be our allies, we're alienating them from our cause and strengthening our opposition. It does no good to label, ostracize, or make anyone feel unwelcome here before they themselves let where they stand be known. That, in my opinion, is the honest, noble, and correct thing to do, both online and off.
     
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  10. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    That's because it's "full" of liberals o_O

    I kid! I kid!
     
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  11. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'd be happy if we could all be one big, happy pro-gun, pro-2A group of folks. Unfortunately, I think that's a bit idealistic. While your reasoning is good and makes sense, I think expecting people to avoid labels is like asking people to always be kind to others or to avoid war. It sounds good, but in reality, we are creatures of habit. Should it happen? Yes. Will it happen, probably not. It's not entirely impossible, we did all stand together for a relatively short time after 9/11. Maybe we could do that again, and hopefully it won't take a tragedy to get us there. We all have a vested interest in protecting the 2nd amendment rights of all Americans. So, in my opinion, we should see all Americans fighting to protect it. I just wonder why so many don't.

    No labels were used/harmed in the creation of this post ;)
     
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  12. BEN LILLY

    BEN LILLY Lincoln City, OR NRA LIFE MEMBER Bronze Supporter

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    Perhaps a debate forum could be made? A Pro/Con set up, with a limit of 5 persons per team.
    Sign up first come first served. Reset Weekly.
     
  13. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Idealistic, that's for sure! Couldn't agree with any of this more :D

    I'm not under any impression that I'm going to change human nature. I'm only trying to explain my thoughts to others, so they get an idea of the reasons for the decisions I make here.
     
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  14. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I've thought about that in the past, same with the political free for all section. In the end, I don't see any way it can bring us together or help the 2A, though it could certainly drive us apart.
     
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  15. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    As I suffer a bit from idealism myself, I can understand your plight :)
     
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  16. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Liberal and pro-gun/pro-Second Amendment is mutually exclusive.

    My dealings with the libs concerning 2nd Amendment issues is, they can own a gun, but nobody else should be allowed to without severe restrictions. These libs continually profess the whittling away at the Second Amendment is good for the whole good. Further, these libs continually profess O'bama and similar folks have no interest in taking our guns away, but are just common sense folks.

    Another gun collecting forum I belong to has a few libs that are nothing more than trolls on that site.

    Libs on their own pro-gun forum (yeah right) would lose interest quickly.

    WAYNO.
     
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  17. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    All good points And I do see your point Joey and agree with it keep it the way it is . It would be nice if we could shut the antis up once and for all. Both sides of the gov work pretty hard to keep us separated and I guess my idea would have probably just added to that . I rest my case.

    I just feel the next few years in Oregon are probably going to be rough for our gun rights and we need to put other differences and bickering aside and work together to preserve what rights we have. And get more gun owners involved who otherwise would not be because they feel out of place.
     
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  18. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Of course, nothing is stopping them from reaching across the table to our side. If they want to work with us then stop pushing for more gun control laws, period. Spend your time and effort on all the real problems in this world and leave our rights alone. I'm afraid I wouldn't believe much of what they have to say until they really did something about it. We're up front with who we are, what we believe, and what we want (our rights, left alone). They flat out lie - they promise they're not coming after our guns, then proceed to pass laws and measures that do just that - restricting people so far it becomes impractical or even impossible to own them. How about they come out and say, "hey guys, just wanted to let you know we're not pursuing any further restriction of your rights, in fact, we're going to roll some ridiculous laws back". If they do that, I'm sure you'd see a much more friendly response.

    Actions, not words. That's what really matters here. Unfortunately, I think we already know what their actions in Salem will be this year. And that's a bad thing for us. If you want to see people working across the board, having the other side attack our rights is absolutely the worst way to make that happen.
     
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  19. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    They have ZERO desire to reach across the table
     
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  20. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    And the typical mentality of the AntiGun advocate. A useful idiot.
     
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