I know this should be common knowledge.....

[Mainsail]

So what’s the difference between a “forum idiot” and this youtube idiocy? I have news for Mr. Smith; a rule, to even be a rule, must be inviolate. That means if you’re going to have a rule and call it a rule, it must ALWAYS apply. A rule must apply universally, in other words, it must apply to all people all the time. As soon as you allow for exceptions, your rule is little more than a suggestion.

So Mr. Smith, how do you clean a loaded gun? How do you dry-fire a loaded gun? How do you demonstrate the function of a gun for a student if it’s loaded? His only answer could be, “Well, except for those times, all guns are always loaded.” As soon as you say “except” your rule became void.

All guns are to be considered loaded until you have confirmed for yourself they are not loaded. The other three rules still apply!

This means that if the gun shop clerk pulls a gun out of the case, racks the slide and looks into the chamber to confirm it’s unloaded, and then hands it to you, the gun is loaded until YOU have confirmed it is not. YOU open the action and confirm the gun is unloaded. You will continue to exercise muzzle control at all times and will not use the clerks or other patrons are targets because Rule 2 forbids that.

How can you teach your child that ‘all guns are always loaded’ if only moments later you’re doing things with that gun that no sane person would do with a loaded gun? What has the child learned? He or she just learned that either the rule doesn’t apply to you (so may not apply to them) or that the rule is only for discussion, not for application.

ADs or NDs happen for two reasons; the person doesn’t know or follow the rules (most often) or they have decided they are operating under one of the rule’s exceptions (dry-firing, cleaning etc). If a person doesn’t have the intellectual capacity to remember the rules, this means all the rules all the time, and needs them to be dumbed down to their level, they should be allowed near firearms.

 

[Jammer Six]

Don't confuse them, Mainsail. Everybody loves Clint Smith.

 

[wichaka]

The four rules which he speaks of, in which all have come to know and love...came from Col. Jeff Cooper, whom Clint Smith worked under at the Gunsite training facility in Az.

Thru the years some have made their own versions of them, some dumbing them down (NRA), while others strengthening them up a bit.

A little insight to Rule #1 - All Guns Are Loaded.

When Clint and some other make this statement, it is still based on Coopers explanation of it, so don't get too wound up over it.

Coopers explanation was all guns are loaded, until you yourself visually and physically check them.
Should you leave the room and come back, in Coopers mind the gun becomes loaded again because it was out of your sight and control.

Clint takes it a step further, but the meaning is pretty much the same.

I tend to stick with the original language and meanings as Cooper laid them out. Having met the guy a few times, he was trying to simplify things, yet get the safety point across. Me thinks he did very well at both.

There are some in the industry who have scoffed at them, look at them as not necessary, feel we violate them everyday, or aren't accurate enough etc.
All I can say, at least we have something that I feel most likely has saved a few lives.

So do what you will with them, but one still must violate at least 2 of the rules to have a debacle.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I love Clint Smith. He bridges the gap between a fluffy civilian trainer and Marine D.I. and he throws in some comedy. The 4 rules aren't meant to be taken absolutely literally. It's designed to instill the mindset to always be very cautious, careful, and deliberate. Obviously all guns are not always loaded...but how effective would it be to say "guns are sometimes loaded"? It's meant to cause people to treat it like it is loaded regardless of current condition. I don't want anyone dry firing at me, I don't care if it's loaded or not.

 

[wichaka]

...but how effective would it be to say "guns are sometimes loaded"?

This is the 'dumbing' down I speak of. Some organizations have written Rule 1 to read "Treat guns as if they are loaded."
A bit weak to me, compared to the original language of "All guns are loaded"

I like the short and strong meaning version much better. Makes a stronger point.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I must be used to those type of instructors, I didn't see anything wrong with his delivery.

Me too. It's serious business. I used that style when I taught scuba diving. Stupid moves will get you killed there just as quick. It's important to create a picture of what can happen in the student's mind. Then they remember.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This is the 'dumbing' down I speak of. Some organizations have written Rule 1 to read "Treat guns as if they are loaded."
A bit weak to me, compared to the original language of "All guns are loaded"

I like the short and strong meaning version much better. Makes a stronger point.

It's a matter of creating a habit and consistent behavior, even when you might be distracted mentally from what you are doing. If all guns are always loaded (even though you've personally unloaded yours), you don't have to stop and think whether THIS time it's OK to point it at somebody.

 

[Jammer Six]

To me, everything you guys have been saying are reasons to make the delivery professional, precisely so the teaching is effective.

It's important. Very important.

That's a reason to make the teaching as effective as possible.

This clip isn't it.

 

[Kevatc]

Stumbled upon some John Farnam wisdom: <broken link removed>

This particular sentence seems quite appropriate for this thread: "Another is the persistent handling of "empty" guns in a careless, inattentive manner. When you have "safe" guns and "dangerous" guns in your life, sooner or later you'll get them mixed in with each other"!