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I HAVE A DREAM

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by MinnesotaORnewbie, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. MinnesotaORnewbie

    MinnesotaORnewbie Oregon Active Member

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    Don't get me wrong, this idea has many flaws at first, yet could be turned into a possible worthwhile organization. My spelling is not the best so bare with me. I hear allot of people talk about political beliefs and differences. Most people have a opinion on things that are screwed up with our government. The list could go on for pages. What is so special about my concern? Well, it deals with Oregon. I have only been in this state for a year and plan on being here for awhile. There are so many things I miss about my old state but there are too many things to appreciate about Oregon. One of those things is the vast amount of land open to the public. When you have over 50% of the land open or owned by the public, (tax payers of this state) you have a huge burden on the state to regulate, up keep, and monitor those lands. Talking about hundreds of thousands of acres. The state does not have the resources including man power to do that. Let alone multiple agencies having sole jurisdiction and/or responsibilities over parts of the land under non-private ownership. The joint working relationships and communication are at par, at best. A state with such vast FREE resources and opportunities to enjoy, experience, and truly turn into a life passion of hobbies, activities, and even family outings, should be such with no fear of greedy, selfishness, and even harmful beings using these lands for their illegal and sole purposes.

    What is this guy getting at? I'm sure allot of you and others enjoy using these lands for multiple purposes. Hunting, fishing, hiking, swimming, camping, gold panning, shooting, exploring, photography, and many more. So what if you go into the states and federal governments lands that are for use by us and are confronted by a person or group of individuals that are using the land for illegal purposes and use fear or harm and manipulation to either keep you from coming back, to leave immediately, to report it, or even attempt to take your life for the sole purpose of greed and money in protecting their area they have chosen to grow, harvest and in the future sell illegal drugs. I as one, do not want to get into the ethics or argument if Weed should be legal or not. Personally I could care less. But when one has to alter their plans to enjoy visiting lands that are set, paid, and kept up by our governments because some, and a growing trend of those are illegal's from Mexico, want to use fear as a force to keep us from using those lands....Well, I'm tired of it and it makes me sick that more is not being done to stop it.
    I understand maybe some of use this does not apply being they do not venture in the southern part of the state. But even in the northern part, west and east, people are using these tactics. I'm not racist. I don't care if your white, black, brown, green, or whatever. If you are protecting public lands with fear and force to better your illegal activities, you have a strong hard spot in my mind. Some of you may know someone that is a neighbor that grows pot and can argue, "they are just trying to provide for their family." You know what I think, they are screwing the rest of the people of this state from accessing those resources. Do it on their own property. Why should I or anyone else have to worry about getting a gun pulled on them while on state or federal property. They shouldn't. And the time has come where enough is enough, and people need to do something about it.
     
  2. MinnesotaORnewbie

    MinnesotaORnewbie Oregon Active Member

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    So what does this guy want to do? I'm not sure exactly. But I have a few ideas that may need some opinions and even criticizem. People in numbers have more power. You or I cannot go out there and tell these people to stop. The county sheriff's don't have the man power or resources to do it. The federal government has "so called better things to do". How many people can get together for a vote. How many can get together for a strike, or rally. What about even a simple get together for cleaning up a shooting area. Do you think three guys in the woods growing Weed under a tent would want to argue with 30 or more citizens and tax payers armed for personal protection? Gathering a group of concerned citizens for a day of public awareness and community service providing show in numbers and even destroying the illegal grows showing we the people will not put up with it anymore. This is not just about our personal wants to use the public land in this state. It's about possibly giving back to our state, and communities. If I lived in a county with this such problem, I would be in dear to those who gathered, organized, and took action to get rid of the problem that is not only in the woods, but leaks into our streets and own neighborhoods.

    I hope this doesn't sound like a public mob going about taking the law in our own hands. Yet, it is our own right to organize and assemble, and to make our interest for the better good known in areas that have been foresighted. I see a idea, does anyone else believe it could happen?
     
  3. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've wanted to run down to the boarder and even volunteer as a minuteman and gather up some peeps and conduct a "patrol" myself.

    But here in lies the problem...you (personally) know that the problem lies deeper than just a handful of dopers in the woods pressuring hunters/hikers to not come back. The problem is, is that the government (and even the sheeple) expect you to pick up a phone when you have these encounters, not a gun. If you do, you turn from victim to vigilante. What you and I view as patriotism, others view as terrorism.

    These thoughts you have are perfectly normal. There are many people that want to "take their country back" from all the things wrong.

    When I got into a firefight in Afghanistan, we lost some people. Some really good people. I wanted to come back overseas...hop on some flights with a rifle, hike over to the Pakistani/Afghanistan boarder and even the score. Some of my comrades even offered to assist saying "you need a spotter?"

    Not everyone gets this mentality...we're supposed to just be happy and content with what the government and the TV tells us. We're supposed to pick up the phone when violence is at our door. Even our LEO thinks that "self-defense" is a bad word. But what kills me is that they have no obligation to protect you and they know it. They're even protected by the courts.

    I'm done with the rant...just realize that you're not alone with this thought, but the sheeple will be lining up in the streets to hang you for it. To them, only cops and military should own guns...everyone else are criminals and potential criminals.
     
  4. FMJ 911

    FMJ 911 Snohomish, Washington Active Member

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    I'm afraid to go hiking in the mountains after that Teacher and her daughter were brutally murdered by unknown gunmen(possibly gang members guarding their stash).

    I never go into the woods without a gun. I'd rather fight and die than be executed.

    SELF DEFENSE!

    There, I said it.
     
  5. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason to go into the woods without a gun. Lots of areas where cell phones don't work and no one who cares will hear you scream. My advice is to carry both a sidearm and a rifle.
     
  6. Asp

    Asp Oregon, the promise land. Active Member

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    Edited :)
     
  7. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Man.. that would get pretty heavy real quick, carrying a sidearms, a rifle, AND firends with their fiearms as well! ;


    Back to the OP... I'd love nothing better than to burn an illegal grow (and the gowers) located out in the bush... to the ground. :D
     
  8. MinnesotaORnewbie

    MinnesotaORnewbie Oregon Active Member

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    So are you in, Stomper?....We can't go out Burning every grow though. I do have some senses that want to follow all laws and guidelines. If you have a friend, and I have a friend, and they have friends, then we all can go out for a organized shoot and while looking for a great long distance shooting area, if we were to come across a grow, then it is our patriotic duty to tear it down, rip them out of the soil, collect all garbage and tenting uses, and then make a pile and call local sheriff's to come in and dispose of the unwanted threat to our woods. With the dry temps and fear of fires, certain times would not be wise to burn it out. Yet, if 10 of us were out and scouting for shooting areas, and we came across such a area, or 2 or three people that didn't speak english, and really like to grow, well, they could stick around by there stuff until the LEO comes or they are free to run as far as they want until LEO comes as well. The minute men were not considered vigilanties.
     
  9. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    eb6.jpg
     
  10. boxer13

    boxer13 PNW Active Member

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    Careful, last guy who had a dream caught one to the head.

    Just sayin'
     
  11. MinnesotaORnewbie

    MinnesotaORnewbie Oregon Active Member

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    well, if you believe this is ok to happen in the state you live in, and no one brings it up or even has ideas on how to stop it, no one should complain when it gets really out of control. I guess it is just easier to sit at home and ridicule others behind a computer and do nothing. If anything, the hopes of this idea is people will not stay home but go out to those areas and be prepared and not feel intimidated by these thugs. This problem is only going to get worse in my opinion due to the current state of Oregon's financial problems and that of our country. Less money will result in less people and resources to assure these lands are not slowly taken over by people who want to selfishly use them for activities they were not set aside for. And the way government works now, budget spending cuts will come, politicians don't do anything anymore because of party lines, and our natural resources will be the easiest to let go. Don't do anything, don't have ideas or motivation to use and save our land we use, and watch it fade away. Most of you hate locked gates, well, in the future, we could see alot more of them when the land that was public is sold to the corporations that lease and control parts of these already public lands for logging interest and accumilation of corporate assets. Locked gates provide easier uses of growing in my opinion, begging for more of it to happen, and more incounters from thugs in the woods. Im getting off subject a bit, but this really does bother me, and if you think its stupid or just someone trolling, well, thanks for your opinion, move on.
     
  12. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    Why would you call him stupid? I'm glad to see other people notice some of what's wrong with our society and are willing to do something about it. I'm not a vigilante by any means, but I love spending time in the woods, and I hate the thought of having to be afraid of criminals out there. I actually get a thrill from the hair raising on the back of my neck when dangerous animals are around, but having to be scared of people out there makes me ill and angry.

    The problem I have with the OP's idea is that I have no way of knowing if the other sportsmen involved in the venture are mentally stable or if they are vigilantes. One wrong action from a fellow "good guy" could put everyone involved at risk of both physical danger and legal ramifications. For that reason, I don't think I'd volunteer unless it was organized in cooperation with the Sheriff's Office of whatever county it took place in.

    So, would you mind explaining why you would call someone stupid for trying to take back his rights to use public land? Being from Lewis County, and being a member of a forum like this, I would have assumed you were a fellow sportsman, and that you might therefore care to make the woods safer. Where did my assumptions go wrong? Are you afraid he'll find your crop?
     
  13. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    Vigilantes always think they are the "good guys"... and that is what is being discussed.
     
  14. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    I dream of a nation where my chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.
     
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  15. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

    As I tried to state clearly, I don't support vigilante justice. However, I also don't condone avoiding the use of our woods because bad guys have moved in. Perhaps a better example is that I recently moved from a very nice neighborhood into a less desireable neighborhood about a 9-iron away from crackville. I guess I could choose not to walk my dog in the evenings because there are bad people around; instead, I choose to legally carry a concealed weapon and be aware of my surroundings while doing what is every citizen's right to do. If things get too bad around here, I'll gladly join a neighborhood watch and actively try to help solve the problem (legally, and peacefully if possible). I think this is the OP's intent with in the woods.
     
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  16. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    Perhaps that is what he meant. However, his forming up a large group of armed men to seek out and confront bad guys in the woods is quite different than you taking a walk with your dog with a firearm under your jacket. I am conceptually sympathetic to his idea of "taking back what is ours" but think we should at least acknowledge that pro-active and voluntary armed confrontation without legal standing is vigilantism.
     
  17. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    Maybe we should take back our parks and neighborhoods first?
     
  18. Beefcake

    Beefcake Portland Active Member

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    There are a couple million people in Oregon that should care about the parks and neighborhoods, but everyone is too apathetic or impotent to do anything. On the flip-side, there are probably really only a few thousand of us that spend time in the woods (aside from trails highlighted in the latest granola guide), but it is nice to know they are "do-ers".

    Quiet Man- The original post does have the possible ring of vigilantism, which is why I said I wouldn't be involved. However, I think the intent was in a good spirit. The whole reason I got involved in this thread in the first place was because some jackhole called him stupid. I guess, while I'm opposed to "vigilantism" (or whatever the correct term is), I am excited to know that there are people willing to speak and possibly act to change what is wrong. I don't mean the hippies camping in downtown Portland right now because it's the cool thing to do; I mean real people with a life that care enough to take time to make the world better. If that makes me stupid (in spite of my 3 college degrees...), well, I'm proud to be on the opposite side of the fence from someone that would sit behind a computer and call someone stupid without an explanation (not pointed at you; you have made valid points; I mean Redcap).
     
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