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I have $1000 for an AR, now what?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by BuffaloBrian, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. BuffaloBrian

    BuffaloBrian Communist Maryland New Member

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    :help:Okay, here is the deal. I have UP TO $1000 to spend on an AR-15. The questions are...
    1. Make and model?
    2. Optics?
    3. Extras?

    Here is the rub...
    It has to be new, not used...EVER. I want the warranty. Also, every gun I ever bought, I bought new(except for my 1st).
    I live in Maryland. No legal restrictions(register it like a hangun, even if it has a 24" barrel), but if I buy locally, I have to pay $60 in taxes and $10 background check. So that means I really have $930.
    BUT, if I buy online, the prices are $200-$300 cheaper.
    I have a local gunshop with FFL that charges $35+$10 background+$25 shipping(typically) and NO TAXES. Comparitively, it is MUCH cheaper on-line.
    I have been looking at Gunbroker for weeks. I bid on a few, but either lost or did not meet the reserve.

    Looking at the "spreadsheet" and doing my own research(uneducated at best), I really want a Daniel Defense made rifle. But, then I have to get optics later.
    If I go dirt cheap online with a manufacturer that gets less than great reviews, I can get optics and other do-dads.

    The least expensive that I could find locally, and last week I went to 5 gun shops, was an Olymmpic Arms for $949 and the dealer said he was "doing me a favor". I checked my pockets before I left to make sure I still had my wallet.

    My uses? Target. Right now, the longest range I have is 100 yds, but in the future, I would like to go to 300+. Thats why I like the AR frame, it is modular.
    I have read over 50 threads and well over 500 posts and I love this forum.
    Thanks in advance. :thankyou:
     
  2. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

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    If you can find a good FFL that will take the x-fer for fees you should be able to purchase direct from the manufacturer at thier dealer price (as long as you pay direct to the mfg up front) and have the weapon shipped to the dlr.

    I have a DPMS and I love it. Many different mfg's to choose from but the key will be finding the FFL who will let you purchase this way.

    T_H
     
  3. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    My take:

    If you buy a rifle that you think is "less than great," you're never going to be truly glad you own it.

    Shooting with iron sights more often never hurt anybody. If you save up for optics, you'll be able to get exactly what you want, instead of making compromises to fit your budget.

    Also - don't forget ammo/extra mags/sling/case/etc. You'll probably spend at least $100 on stuff like that pretty much right away... You won't need any other "extras" to get started (except maybe right-sized cleaning supplies), but aftermarket grips are cheap and can really improve an AR's feel.
     
  4. BuffaloBrian

    BuffaloBrian Communist Maryland New Member

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    Those are some great points Zach. I am looking for the initial investment. You know, to get the ball rolling. Optics will come later and mags, well, the one that comes with the gun would suffice for now. As for your 1st point, that really is the biggest factor. Just like in the movie Tommy Boy..."I can take a (poop) in a box and write gauranteed in it..."
     
  5. BuffaloBrian

    BuffaloBrian Communist Maryland New Member

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    WOW Teufel, that is an AMAZING idea. Is that legal? If I buy from him, what about taxes? That would just make my day.:partyman:
    What do you think a DDM4v2 dealer cost would be if the retail direct from Daniel Defense's website is $1537?

    I looked at 1 DPMS at a dealer last week but the dealer talked me out of it unless I get a Panther Bull. He said their normal barrels are not that great. Just repeating what he said.
     
  6. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

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    I know its ok as long as the mfgr and the FFL agree to allow you to pay direct and the FFL will do the receive for the fees quoted who cares that you pay the cost.

    As for taxes I wouldn't even attempt to tell you about the tax situation in your state.

    My dealer calls the distibuter and gets the price for what I have researched. Tells the mfr I'll be calling, I pay with my cc and he recieves. I pay his recieve fee and magic.

    T_H

    ps- as for DPMS I have a a-15 panther 20inch. I've run literally 1000's of rounds down it. It's great.
     
  7. Humpyslayer

    Humpyslayer Kent Member

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    My advice would be to start looking for a deal online with someone who hasn't shot there's but still has the warranty card unfilled out (seeing as how warranty is important to you). I've also seen at Wade's Eastside Guns in Bellevue a decent deal where they slapped a brand new stag upper onto a bushmaster lower for around $800. They had a Lmt upper bushmaster lower combo for around $900. Not sure if they still have that deal going but you could always swing by there and talk to one of the really good dudes down there, Roberto. There might be a little wiggle room on price and he's going to give you a straight forward answer if you ask and take care of you. Not sure with a rifle with parts from 2 different manufacturers if there's any sort of warranty but I've owned over a dozen AR's over the last 9 years and NEVER had to use their warranty. Never had one break or blow up or give me any issues that weren't ammo related or because I let it get dirty (except my first bushmaster which had a burr on the bolt face that'd cause it to lock up if dirty and I fixed that with a little filing in about 5 minutes).

    Personally, if you have the money to buy a used LMT, Colt, Rock River, or S&W (all of which I find are of top shelf quality) and they fall in your budget, snatch them up. I'd rather have an exceptional used rifle with a couple hundred rounds down the pipe, than a cheap or mid level rifle that's new. Stay away from Olympic if you can. Not to slam the Oly owners rifles out there but you can do better for your money. 6 months ago I bought a brand new S&W MP-15 from a gun I found online for $795 bucks (sold it since then) and a couple months before that bought a used (looked new when I got it and had now brass marks or dings on the deflector) rifle that had an Lmt upper with a 16" barrel and 1/7 twist, bushmaster lower with 6 position stock, GG&G rear backup sight, Condor Tactical carrying case, 2 boxes of ammo, 3 brand new factory colt mags, and 4 brand new Pmags, all for $800. Not saying those deals are everywhere, but if you're patient and look around and do a little negotiating, you can get yourself a great rifle for a good price. Good luck with the search!
     
  8. HalfNutz

    HalfNutz Kirkland (Juanita) Member

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  9. Dutchy556

    Dutchy556 Bend, OR Member

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    You've clearly done some homework and referenced the chart and what have you. Your impulse to buy one of the DD offerings is a very good one.

    Get the best rifle you can now and worry about optics when you have the cash, you will thank yourself later.

    Don't fall into the trap of going cheap just so you can have a tricked out (but lesser quality) rifle, it will not serve you as well in the end. Go with a quality base rifle from DD, BCM, LMT, etc.

    Also, I know you're adamant about buying new but I can tell you I'd rather trust my life to a used DD, BCM, Colt or the like than a new commercial grade AR.

    Go on a good AR forum like M4 Carbine and see the kind of reviews DDs and BCMs are getting after being run hard at carbine classes. Figure that if a quality mil-spec AR can stand up to 10, 15 20k without anything more than just good lubing, imagine how well you'll be served by a used AR with no more than a couple K down the pipe if that. Buy a spare bolt for peace of mind and rock and roll...

    There are so many new offerings coming out now that a lot of guys are dumping really good kit to update to the latest greatest barrel profile or what have you. If you shop around you could get an awesome rifle (or upper and build/buy a lower) with some goodies and stay within your budget.

    Just my 2 cents...


    ETA: If looking for new & mil spec on a budget I'd also check out the Spikes Tactical offerings. Really solid specs and well regarded by those who've been putting them through their paces or so it seems.
     
  10. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    Is there any reason you're looking to buy a complete rifle and not build your own?
    You can save a lot of money that way, in taxes and in the rifle itself and get exactly what you want.

    You can pick up a stripped lower for under $100 easy, a lower parts kit and stock for under another $150, there's your lower for under $250. All you need to do is spend about 30 minutes putting that together (it's not too hard, especially with a friend) and then buy a complete upper from someplace, a lot of places warranty them as well, like what you're looking for.

    You can get your complete AR made to your specs for under $1000 including shipping, extra mags, upgrades here and there with no issues + the upper (where more issues happen) is under warranty, if you have issues with the lower, you built it so you know what parts to buy and replace individually, ends up being very cheap.

    I built my lower and then bought the upper parts from del-ton, had my gunsmith mount the barrel to the upper (this is the long route, you can buy them complete too) and got everything complete for under $1,000 including labor, shipping, etc. Had I got a complete upper and not paid for labor I would have got it under $900. If I got it stock without all the upgrades I did to it, I would be under $700 without question.

    Look into it, it can be cheaper, it's educational, you get what you want, and you have the pride in it that you put it all together to make it work.

    Otherwise, for complete rifles at good prices, look into DPMS, Del-Ton, and Stag Arms. All of them have great products and great selections.
     
  11. vern357

    vern357 Near Olympia Member

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    This is the one you want. Classicarms.us 799 plus shipping, you can then replace the optic later but it will get your everything you are looking for.

    NEW FROM RPG. HEAVY BBL OPTIC READY AR-15. THIS RIFLE HAS IT ALL. HEAVY BBL, COLLAPSABLE STOCK, UTG MULTI ATTACHMENT TACTICAL HANDGUARD, HARRIS STYLE BI-POD, AND A UTG SWATFORCE RED/GREEN DOT SCOPE. THE SCOPE INCLUDES FLIP UP LENS COVERS AND COMES COMPLETE WITH BATTERY AND RINGS. RIFLE ALSO INCLUDES 2- 30 RD MAGS, SCOPE MANUAL, SLING, AND SHIPS IN A HARDSHELL CASE. LIKE ALL RPG AR RIFLES IT CARRIES A LIMITED LIFETIME WARRENTY.
    ITEM # RPG-AR15-LE-RD-HB...................$799.95
     
  12. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Buy a kit from Del-Ton (I got a 20" for coyotes), a stripped lower of your choice, and spend the other $300 on add-ons
     
  13. shoggoth80

    shoggoth80 Greater Seattle Area Member

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    You have MANY options out there. You can snag a Spike's upper for less than $500 shipped, and buy your lower from many places. I have used Aero Precision ($80), and SA&A (rebranded Aero, $75), a little more for each if you want a lower parts kit installed. Really good if you are on a budget, and there is nothing wrong with them. You can also get a Spike's lower receiver for something around $80 if my memory serves. You can build your own, and save couple hundred. Why not do it all, and do it well if the opportunity is there. BCM also does some really nice rifles, and parts (uppers, lowers, barrels)... they are a little newer (as is Spike's) but both are making good names for themselves in terms of quality. Just about everyone who owns a rifle from Spike's or BSM love them. Del-Ton is supposed to be really good for the money too. I almost went Del-Ton on my first build, until AIM got some Spike's uppers in stock, and I had to jump at them (more features for around the same price as the basic Del-Ton)... can't complain thus far.

    Just a little input, take it as you will. Best of luck in your hunt!
     
  14. SCTSQRL

    SCTSQRL Peoples Republic of Eugene Member

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    Fixed.

    In regards to the post above KTM's, while ClassicArms has some great deals without a doubt, alot of their package AR's heavily rely on Leapers/UTG furniture and optics - which you'll spend alot of money replacing. Just my opinion, and I'm optimistic that they'll improve as they move (at least in rhetoric) towards 922 compliant, US manufacturing - but here to for leapers products have been junk any time I've been dumb enough to try them out. Made the mistake with my Mossberg, and again with my WASR trunk monkey - both times thinking to myself that a cheap gun deserved equally cheap upgrades, well, you buy too cheap - you buy twice.

    Basically, Leapers/UTG is an airsoft products company that has decided to seize the day in regards to low-end carbine upgrades, and pimp-your-SKS type optics.

    In general, however, my AR experience is limited - vastly, compared to many here and at places like m4carbine.net, so if someone else has a total leapers rifle like the ones on classic arms, and just loves the heck out of it, I'll stand on my kippah and be corrected. I've only owned an AR of my own since Saturday, after all. However, a build your own route might be the best of all worlds - not to mention, it will make you very familiar with the weapons system.

    For further reading, if you haven't already checked out Tactical Yellow Visor's charts - which may have been what you meant by the spreadsheets I suppose, check out his site - and don't give up on DD (or a Noveske); they have a great reputation and I doubt you'd ever regret it. It's cheaper to downgrade than upgrade, 100% of the time.
     
  15. judicator

    judicator McMinnville Active Member

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  16. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    LMT complete lower - $280
    BCM complete upper - $520
    ----
    $800

    get an mbus for $40, basic handguards for $20-30, 5 or 6 pmags for $14 each... blamo, you have a weapon of the finest quality for less than your budget. both companies will support their product till the end of time.
     
  17. shoggoth80

    shoggoth80 Greater Seattle Area Member

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    Word. There is no reason that the poster cannot build a high quality rifle while staying within that budget.
     
  18. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Another vote for the LMT and BCM.
     
  19. BuffaloBrian

    BuffaloBrian Communist Maryland New Member

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    All of these suggestions are fantastic. Most of which I did not consider. Like building my own...I did not know that I could take an LMT lower and BCM upper and both would be warranted. I assumed(and we all know what that means) that when mixing and matching, although compatible, would void the warranty on either or both.
    On aside, once I get my new AR, and other goodies, what new caliber upper should I go for? Particularly for hunting White Tail. I am not sure what or if there are caliber restrictions, but the DNR website does indicate 1200 lbs of muzzle energy. Anyone hunt medium to large game with an AR type rifle?
     
  20. Iceberg

    Iceberg Forest Grove Active Member

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    I have a DPMS complete M4 type lower ($250) & a DSA complete ZM4 Type Upper ($400).

    Upper Specs:
    Forged 7075T6 A3 Flattop Upper Receiver
    - Forged Front Sight Base with Bayonet Lug
    - A2 Flash Hider
    - 16 Inch 5.56mm NATO Nitride Treated Chrome Moly 1:9 Twist ZM-4 Barrel
    - M4 Style Handguards
    - Aluminum Delta Ring
    - M4 Style Feed Ramps

    http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-Forged-7075T6-A3-AR15-Upper-Receiver---DSZM4CBU/productinfo/DSZM4CBU/

    For $650 and you have a quality M4 type carbine which leaves you $350 for optics/assys. I mounted a IOR Valdada Red Dot w/mount ($200) & a new USGI MaTech BUIS ($50) on mine and was in it less than $1K. That would leave you $100 for extra mags and a tactical sling.

    My Colt 6920 and LMT SopMod carbine did not shoot any better and cost much more.

    This is my rifle w/ my Spike's AR22 upper on it (Used $400 at PDX show). You can shoot one of these all day for $20!

    Hunting002-1.jpg