I didn't have my gun

[Three Bars]

I haven't been on this board f1or a week, lot's to catch up on.

My first thought on reading the OP's post is this scene is a tactical nightmare.

Even if the situation esculated to the level where presenting your firearm is warranted there is no way to fire a round without endangering the innocent people in the area...or given the range of your projectile, who knows how big an area.
a shot here would only be warranted as a last ditch effort to protect one's life.

Knowing that you never present your weapon unless ready to use it, this could be a no win situation.


Many have made a case for pepper spray, and I always carry some whether armed or not. I may be a safe option in this situation.

I'm one of those guys who can't help but get involved when someone else is threatened, but it's imperative that you asses the risk involved as to whether you should get involved or not.
Helping your fellow man, or woman, is one thing, but foolishly risking your life does not make you a hero, nor is it fair to those who depend on you at home.

And for us older guys in our retirement years, well just remember that we can't do what we used to be able to do.

 

[40calruler]

I haven't been on this board f1or a week, lot's to catch up on.

My first thought on reading the OP's post is this scene is a tactical nightmare.

Even if the situation esculated to the level where presenting your firearm is warranted there is no way to fire a round without endangering the innocent people in the area...or given the range of your projectile, who knows how big an area.
a shot here would only be warranted as a last ditch effort to protect one's life.

Knowing that you never present your weapon unless ready to use it, this could be a no win situation.


Many have made a case for pepper spray, and I always carry some whether armed or not. I may be a safe option in this situation.

I'm one of those guys who can't help but get involved when someone else is threatened, but it's imperative that you asses the risk involved a

I agree that we have to asses the risk but I am sure you know as well as I do sometimes when you see a bully situation especially with a woman all you can asses is the red you see and charge. As you said and many others including myself the gun is really not something that would be a good idea in this situation. Way to much risk to yourself and the sheep. The mace is great but pondering this I think a tactical nightmare is a good way to put it. I would try to help but you never know what the guys are on or what weapons they may have. I think I would likely mace the whole damn crowd of them and then start swinging after I blind them and make them feel like they cannot breath. Either way there is no true answer to how to help aside from going in knowing you are at risk for a lot of unknowns. That would not stop me but as many have said and many people do just look and consider their well being greater than the woman. I guess the seeing red thing just makes those thoughts disappear and the urge to help is stronger than the urge to protect myself.

 

[Three Bars]

40...
The truth be known, I often let my emotions override me better judgment, begrudgingly so, but it still happens.

I have been forced to use a walking cane the last few years due to an old injury, and as all of us know, a cane can be employed as an effective weapon...particularly so after one has been disabled by being pepper sprayed.

 

[40calruler]

40...
The truth be known, I often let my emotions override me better judgment, begrudgingly so, but it still happens.

I have been forced to use a walking cane the last few years due to an old injury, and as all of us know, a cane can be employed as an effective weapon...particularly so after one has been disabled after being pepper sprayed.

Hey I am with you on everything there. I ditched my cane not long ago after jumping into a bad situation it took 2 years plus of rehab and a cane to get myself back to full health. A cane is a very good tool and a gun or mace is much easier to grab after a crack to a bad guy with a heavy cane. One handed grabbing for a pistol is tough but I worked with it and learned to use my cane as a tool rather than a crutch by just messing with it and getting used to the way it moved and how I could use it defensively. I still keep it in the car as I can still get away with saying I need it at times and it is a better club than most I have held. Much longer too as far as a jab to the gut or nose and then having time to draw mace or the gun if need be.
Some of us let our emotions take over more than we may want but for the most part I do so when I see a person who is weak being picked on. I have since I was a kid and likely always will jump into bad situations when everyone just stares. Sure you can get hurt but in my opinion my good friend being a walking and healthy guy is worth more than me having to use a cane for a couple years.

 

[BlindedByScience]

There are far, far too many hungry liability lawyers that are capable and willing to second guess and question your every move, every action. The good guy in me would have dove in and broken it up. The guy that knows the law and the times would have stayed in his locked car and called 911. Call me a coward, that's fine. The last thing I want is to lose my home, my savings, my life to some sleaze lawyer representing some equally disgusting street sleaze, just because I forgot to dot an "I" or cross a "T".

Directly threaten me or my family, and I'll show you the gates of hell up close and personal. But, as much as our conscience tells us that we need to get involved in situations like this.....honestly, we can't. Too much personal risk. Sad, but true.

 

[Three Bars]

I understand wanting to be locked safely in your car, thus insuring the well being of your family.
And by no means am I faulting any one for doing so.

But I, for one, and others, find it difficult to idly sit by and watch an injustice be perpetrated on one who is weaker, and defenseless.

I'm not saying that one should single handedly jump in and try to take on a half dozen young, strong, and possibly armed with ??? street punks, but standing with the bystanders, and being willing to help in some way, without putting yourself in danger, would surely be a better response...at least to my way of thinking.

As members of civilized society, a message must be sent that this behavior is not to be tolerated.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

I truly hate bullies, that said I'm a bunch older than the last time I did get involved a few short years ago. I guess I'll just have to wait until I'm faced with a situation of my own again to know won't I?
There are very few of us that can actually say what we would or not do in any given situation, and then do it as planned, poppycock.

To the OP, you reacted to it the way you did in that moment, its that simple. Will you react the same way next time? Heck who knows.

Choices made can't be changed. I don't believe I could stand and watch a half dozen punks beat down anyone without attempting to help, let alone a woman. That choice is mine, not anyone elses to make and for me to deal with. I agree with many if not all responces made here, just keep in mind that if one elects to intervene they also except the possible repricussions for their actions. But I'll be damned if I would go anywhere thats it's legal for me to carry and not do so, again my choice.

 

[NoFlinch]

I couldn't tell if the woman they were beating was one of them or not.

If this woman were a Homeless "lady", I would have kept going.
MOST homeless people are mental, or they choose the lifestyle.

BEFORE I became involved at all, I would make this decision.

NO gun, though!

Homeless folks are NOT people I want to risk my life for....

Now, if this victim was from this link.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...9DD3723163F5614CFD93643A77DA1A724&FORM=IQFRBA

...I would have changed into my superhero costume and kicked their butts.....

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I truly hate bullies, that said I'm a bunch older than the last time I did get involved a few short years ago. I guess I'll just have to wait until I'm faced with a situation of my own again to know won't I?
There are very few of us that can actually say what we would or not do in any given situation, and then do it as planned, poppycock.

To the OP, you reacted to it the way you did in that moment, its that simple. Will you react the same way next time? Heck who knows.

Choices made can't be changed. I don't believe I could stand and watch a half dozen punks beat down anyone without attempting to help, let alone a woman. That choice is mine, not anyone elses to make and for me to deal with. I agree with many if not all responces made here, just keep in mind that if one elects to intervene they also except the possible repricussions for their actions. But I'll be damned if I would go anywhere thats it's legal for me to carry and not do so, again my choice.

John, I would change just one word! From possible to inevitable repercussions!

 

[40calruler]

I understand wanting to be locked safely in your car, thus insuring the well being of your family.
And by no means am I faulting any one for doing so.

But I, for one, and others, find it difficult to idly sit by and watch an injustice be perpetrated on one who is weaker, and defenseless.

I'm not saying that one should single handedly jump in and try to take on a half dozen young, strong, and possibly armed with ??? street punks, but standing with the bystanders, and being willing to help in some way, without putting yourself in danger, would surely be a better response...at least to my way of thinking.

As members of civilized society, a message must be sent that this behavior is not to be tolerated.

I think too many people think that the message you speak of needs to come from law enforcement. The problem with that is in any situation like the one the OP described the person can be dead by the time the police arrive. I cannot and will not tolerate standing by and watching as something like that unfolds right in front of me. I could not sleep at night knowing I could have done something.
I also do not fault those who would not jump in. We are all built differently and have different emotional responses. Mine is to "sick" as a dog might and go full throttle to help a helpless person. Others here have that same feeling. Some have more clarity and think of the lawyers after the fact and what can happen to you if you beat a guy and they get a scummy lawyer to sue you. I will think about that after the person under attack is safe. My money is not worth more than someones life no matter who they are. As Three Bars said there needs to be more people that show these punks it is not going to go down without some of them being injured in a serious way.
As some have said they are older now and have done their time jumping in. That is fair but to the people who are capable I cannot understand just watching. You do not have to be a trained fighter to stand up to punks. As many have said most bullies run when confronted with a person who is not afraid and does not look away while they bully their way through the world.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

John, I would change just one word! From possible to inevitable repercussions!

I may also change "except" to accept as well, danged spell checker and an old brain any way.

 

[Sstrand]

No Flinch
If she was from that group they'd be fighting one another . . . Right along with me!

Sheldon

 

[40calruler]

If this woman were a Homeless "lady", I would have kept going.
MOST homeless people are mental, or they choose the lifestyle.

BEFORE I became involved at all, I would make this decision.

NO gun, though!

Homeless folks are NOT people I want to risk my life for....

Now, if this victim was from this link.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sports illustrated&id=1EDA3DB9DD3723163F5614CFD93643A77DA1A724&FORM=IQFRBA

...I would have changed into my superhero costume and kicked their butts.....

Now that is a contradiction. Models are as big of drug addicts as any street person. Not to mention dumb as rocks. Like saying you would rather save a drug addicted statue over a real person with a mental illness they cannot help.

 

[The Heretic]

SemperFi,

That is your choice and your right to make that choice.

However, I've done more than my fair share of risking my life for other people, and I will again in such a situation - even though I am too old to do what I used to do to pull peoples fat out of the fire.

I look at it like this; that woman on the ground probably didn't deserve the beat down. If that was my mother, my daughter, hell even my ex-wife, I would very much appreciate someone stepping in and stopping the beating. I am sure whomever that woman is related too would appreciate it too.

If everyone minds their own business, then the world would be a lot worse off than it is - and I want the world to be a better place where such stuff doesn't happen.

Again, your choice. Not mine.

 

[40calruler]

SemperFi,

That is your choice and your right to make that choice.

However, I've done more than my fair share of risking my life for other people, and I will again in such a situation - even though I am too old to do what I used to do to pull peoples fat out of the fire.

I look at it like this; that woman on the ground probably didn't deserve the beat down. If that was my mother, my daughter, hell even my ex-wife, I would very much appreciate someone stepping in and stopping the beating. I am sure whomever that woman is related too would appreciate it too.

If everyone minds their own business, then the world would be a lot worse off than it is - and I want the world to be a better place where such stuff doesn't happen.

Again, your choice. Not mine.

I agree with all of that. Our world would be a lot better if more people acted rather than just posting what they saw on their facebook later that night and taking pictures. It is peoples choice but the reasoning is sometimes a seemingly selfish one.
I could say I have done my share as I know I have compared to most people. I could bow out since I have been on the wrong end of a gun from street punks when jumping in to help my friend being beaten. I could bow out because my sister was shot and killed 3 years ago from trying to help someone.
We all could come up with an excuse that has happened to us or our family to say we have done enough. I will feel I have done enough when I no longer see situation like this and do not have to do anything to stop them. Until then if I am there I will do what I always have and always will when a bully or group is out of line.
If you have the means to help someone and choose to just stand by and watch then yes I believe you are a coward and a sheep for thinking it is the cops job and not yours to help your own community.

 

[Three Bars]

While reading this thread I keep having this thought: I wonder what the late Col. Jeff Cooper would say about this?

 

[Riot]

While reading this thread I keep having this thought: I wonder what the late Col. Jeff Cooper would say about this?

I think, like myself, he'd be pissed that so many people were just watching it happen and not doing anything about it!

 

[40calruler]

I think if it does not piss you off there is something wrong with your view of the world. Three Bars I keep thinking the same about many people that I have read about in our history and have respect for. I can only imagine the outrage so many of them would feel that there is even people debating if they would step in or not.

 

[NoFlinch]

40 cal,
would you please use PARAGRAPHS, so I, as well as others who feel the same, will read your rants................?

Cuz, when you don't come up for a breath when typing, it's a RANT!

Thanks

 

[40calruler]

I will and do when I use my computer. On my phone you will have to ignore the "rants" as its hard to tell if I spaced it down enough.