I did it, my first suppressor!

[jbett98]

Take a look at SilencerCo's Gun Trust.
It's around $175.00 and their web page explains a lot of what you're asking about.

 

[kato pup dog]

I've been looking at numerous trusts, websites and attorneys links. So far, the more ya spend, the better the trust. I dislike this principle...kinda seems like a scam for certain groups. So far, trust guru has had the best information and layout for a versatile trust. That's at $129.00 or so...

Very little information about where the liability stands if NFA items are stolen.

 

[jbett98]

I would think that the trust would take the hit on stolen goods, kinda like an LLC protects the owners.
What kind of neighborhood do you live in that makes you worried about theft?

 

[kato pup dog]

I actually live outside of town. I ask because theft is common all over. Wasn't a month ago I caught a guy trying to steal my hotrod 67 F100 from my driveway. Used my Suomi to handle the situation.

I am not finding any information on tax status, possible insurance needs, storage details, or what all can be included in these trusts. Seems everything is kept on the hush side so attorneys can cache in...I just spent a wad on the purchase so I don't want to drop any more coin for legal advice. Let's not get into the fact that few attorneys actually have a clue regarding these things.

 

[PDXSparky]

The best part of transferring ownership of a form 1-4 item in a gun trust is that it only costs $5.00 per tax stamp.

Can you explain this in more detail to me because I've never heard anything like this.

I do know that upon the owners death, NFA items transfer to the beneficiary tax free on a Form 5. It doesn't matter if the item is "owned" by a trust or an individual.

 

[jbett98]

The ATF have changed this since I dealt with my inheritance.
I stand corrected. They have removed the fee altogether with a form 5.

 

[gryghin]

Great topic, OP. I've been thinking about getting my first can as well.

 

[tarster]

so for a few things.. I got my trust through Silencershop.com, they have a very easy walk through to making the trust, for that one in particular any of the trustee's can purchase NFA items into the trust, but only the proprietor (you) can sell an items from the trust.

I do not know about theft, I leave mine locked inside a large safe bolted to my garage floor.. and its surrounded on all sides, it would take some work getting items out of it.

 

[DirectDrive]

When you try to suppress supersonic rounds, you may be disappointed.
You might have more fun with that can if if you get a .300 Blackout upper for that AR
and run sub-sonics through it.

 

[kato pup dog]

I reload...and I put an adjustable gas block on the AR when I built it. Total custom build...I'm a machinist and I like to tinker. Being legal and doing the right thing is important.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Well I made the jump. Paid for my first suppressor today. In for the wait...not sure if I want to do a trust. Figure I'll be filing paperwork in a month or so...any advice is appreciated.

Picking up a silencerco saker 7.62. The intended use will be the AR, my 30-06 and 22-250. Debating muzzle devices...especially for the 22-250.

I went through 199trust.com ($59.99) for my trust. It was simple and things that were not were answered quickly by email or phone. Have a Sig MPX in 9mm that i am conveying to a SBR. My daughter is my beneficiary and my co-trustee is a trusted friend with 3-gun experience who will help her through dealing with my guns after my death. Everyone has a favorite but they are mine.

 

[PDX1953]

I used Atty. Lori Beight at Cascade Legal Planning in Portland. She's an expert in Trusts and in particular, firearm Trusts. The more complicated the Trust the more they cost but I was happy with what I got for my $600 because it lays out the chain of inheritance. All of my firearms are now "owned" by the Trust and if cops wanted to seize them because I went bonkers they couldn't legally do it because the Trustees, (my sons & a nephew) have the authority to immediately take possession of them in case I'm deemed to be incapacitated for any reason. As soon as I buy a firearm I simply transfer it to the Trust by adding it to the Trust inventory list. I'm able to do that because I'm the Trust Grantor and a Trustee and as Grantor I can add/remove Trustees at will. If I owned a suppressor I could make a copy of the tax stamp document, write a note stating that I'm loaning the item to someone & as long as they have those with them (and aren't in a State where they're illegal) they can use them. My nephew lives in WA so he can't have any NFA stuff & my oldest son live in Kalifornia and that's 'nuff said about them. That leaves my youngest son in Oregon with any and all NFA items I might acquire.

What's rather comical is that I'm getting ready to Form 1 a SBR and my Trust documentation is locked in a fireproof document vault but I couldn't find the key. I looked in all the places where it wasn't & as George Carlin said, "Of course it's in the last place you look. You'd be stupid to find it & keep looking." I found the key and from now on the vault will be unlocked, locked inside my gun safe which is bolted to the garage floor. Between the two a fire could burn for a couple of hours before I'd begin to worry about the lock box contents.

 

[kato pup dog]

PDX1953, that was the most complete and we'll rounded answer I've seen so far. Thank you.

You state "

As soon as I buy a firearm I simply transfer it to the Trust by adding it to the Trust inventory list.

Is that all you need to do? Just add the items to an itemized inventory? I'm curious the language used in order to make that legal because that's exactly what I'd like to have set up.

 

[PDX1953]

Sorry - I have a habit of being verbose sometimes.

According to Atty. Beight that's all I need to do. My inventory list just says 'Inventory of (my gun Trust name)'. I have an Excel spreadsheet showing the model, serial, date when & where/who I got it from, the cost, the mfg date, caliber, if it's a rifle, pistol, revolver, upper or whatever. I'm a bit OCD about details but it also reminds me how much I have invested. I gave my son & grandson a few guns along the way so they show into & out of inventory with the dates I gave them the guns. The additions to inventory are in black & the removals are in red.

My habit of tracking things include expenses & income. Every cent I spend & how much income I receive is recorded daily. I won't go into detail but I can tell you how much I spent on any given day since Jan 1, 2014 & what it was spent on. Like I said - OCD.

 

[jcruz907]

Even if your parents aren't into guns, I don't think naming them as trustees isn't going to really affect anything as long as they agree to be assigned to dispose the property according to the way the trust is set up. The other plus of a trust is that, depending on how you have it set up and your state's laws, you may be able to add or remove trustees as you like for as long as you want. If, for example, you have a close relative or trusted individual that's allowed to possess firearms and you wish to allow access to the items in the trust - like going to shoot or hunt (as allowed by your state's laws of course) and you want to let him/her have access to an SBR or suppressor listed on your trust - you can make them temp trustees for the day (or even specific hours) and they have access. When the day's done, it goes back to the way it was. You may also limit what they have access to for the time they have it. It all depends on how you get it set up just how flexible you want it to be. Just make sure to get it from an attorney who specializes in trusts. They cost a bit more than other options (like legal zoom or Joe Blow) but they're worth it because you'll get exactly what you want. I got mine in Texas and I got it through an attorney who specializes in NFA trusts and while it was more expensive doing it that way than I had originally thought, it was well worth the peace of mind.

The other added advantage of a trust is that it doesn't have to go through the probate process like a will does, God forbid, something happens to you and is, therefore, not a public record. Aside from getting your NFA items properly processed and your taxes on those items paid, no one else but those involved in the trust need to know a thing. As I understand it, the actual owner of the NFA items is the trust itself and not the trustees who are actually managers of the trust.

 

[PDX1953]

Even if your parents aren't into guns, I don't think naming them as trustees isn't going to really affect anything as long as they agree to be assigned to dispose the property according to the way the trust is set up. The other plus of a trust is that, depending on how you have it set up and your state's laws, you may be able to add or remove trustees as you like for as long as you want. If, for example, you have a close relative or trusted individual that's allowed to possess firearms and you wish to allow access to the items in the trust - like going to shoot or hunt (as allowed by your state's laws of course) and you want to let him/her have access to an SBR or suppressor listed on your trust - you can make them temp trustees for the day (or even specific hours) and they have access. When the day's done, it goes back to the way it was. You may also limit what they have access to for the time they have it. It all depends on how you get it set up just how flexible you want it to be. Just make sure to get it from an attorney who specializes in trusts. They cost a bit more than other options (like legal zoom or Joe Blow) but they're worth it because you'll get exactly what you want. I got mine in Texas and I got it through an attorney who specializes in NFA trusts and while it was more expensive doing it that way than I had originally thought, it was well worth the peace of mind.

The other added advantage of a trust is that it doesn't have to go through the probate process like a will does, God forbid, something happens to you and is, therefore, not a public record. Aside from getting your NFA items properly processed and your taxes on those items paid, no one else but those involved in the trust need to know a thing. As I understand it, the actual owner of the NFA items is the trust itself and not the trustees who are actually managers of the trust.

You're correct in that the Trust owns the NFA item and the Grantor (the person who had the Trust created) is allowed to add & remove Trustees, temporarily or permanently but Obama is trying to change this. He recently stated that "faceless corporations" are buying machine guns, I believe in an attempt to claim criminals are ending up with them. If that idiot knew how much a fully automatic firearm cost and how rare they are he might have a different view. I'm also betting there are a lot of Democrats who own them. A Trust also eliminates the requirement for the CLEO in your area to sign off on them.

 

[jcruz907]

Obama and his ilk are dreaming up threats where none exist. It's already a federal felony to grant access of any firearm (let alone an NFA item) to a person who is not allowed to possess one according to federal law as well as a felony in many states. While the number of those now engaged in trusts are expanding, when compared to the total number of gun owners, it's probably a small number considering that most people either don't want to spend an extra $200 per NFA item or simply can't afford it, let alone the few hundred $ it cost to set up the trust. I'm sure almost all those that do, have significant enough holdings (and grey matter) to not want to place all they possess and their freedom in jeopardy by granting access to an unauthorized individual. And while I don't know the stats, I'll bet the number of individuals who have committed crimes with NFA items from trusts is EXTREMELY small or close to non-existent.

 

[Norm0931]

You don't need a trust. Trusts are the "in" thing to do and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon because they think it's "better." In reality, come July 13th, all these people with 300 trustees so their dog, and cousin, and cousin's dog can use the trust's NFA items will ALL have to submit prints, photos, and background info to the ATF. So next time you want to buy an item you have to get paperwork on yourself AND every trustee to send in. Furthermore, the other trustees have as much legal ownership of your item as you do. You divorce your wife, the suppressor is now communal property, as is everything else on the trust with her. Your buddy gets gambling debts and sells your suppressor, well, legally it was also his, you are SOL. The ONLY benefit to having a trust after July will be the ease of transfer in the event of your death. If there are living trustees, nothing happens. If there aren't the trust is dissolved in accordance with your Schedule B and the beneficiaries get the trust property (free transfer). Under an individual whoever inherits your NFA items would have to Form 4 the items from your estate to themselves. Realistically, in your case with no other person to add, the only benefit would be not having to get prints or the CLEO signature. Honestly, it's not that difficult and cheaper than a trust.

 

[NoLimePlease]

I'm on month three of the "NFA Shuffle". Purchased my can from a very friendly gun shop on Mcgloughlin Blvd in Milwaukee. Used "199Trust" on the net, cost me $59.
Go the trust route. You'll have plenty of time to figure out all the "what if" stuff while you're doing the shuffle.

 

[kato pup dog]

The bottom line at this time then, is my ability to hand down "all" of my firearms to my daughter when she comes of legal age, if something happens to me. I read of several horror stories where the old man dies and the state removes the firearms even though he had/has a will. I like the ironclad idea behind the trust. Just needed to fill in a few details...PDX1953 has provided most of what I needed to read. Few are willing to explain in detail the what and how's about things.

I'm ok with providing fingerprints and stuff to O-scamma and the ATF if they move for that. I'm not against it...not happy about it either. Just need to make sure forming a trust is the right thing for me...