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The late economist Milton Friedman once said "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." Replace "free market" with other freedoms, such as RKBA, and the statement still holds true. Those that wish to violate our rights, at some fundamental level, have a problem with their fellow citizens exercising their rights and running their life as they wish. As such, I cannot think of an even remotely convincing argument on this topic.
My understanding is that Oregon contains a significant population of independent voters, if that is true I would guess many of them don't have hardcore beliefs about gun rights. This is who I would like to engage with. If we are to believe that one segment is hardcore anti-gun and one segment is hardcore pro-gun then we are doomed. I tend to believe there is a good chunk in the middle.
 
Yes, that was my thought. It wasn't anything you said, I am just thinking it might be better to just dive right in at place where my target audience might be hanging out.

Well then , again I would suggest that you be :
Genuine in your attempt at understanding where the other guy is coming from...
And be respectful in your replies and comments.

As well as keeping in mind that when a gun owner engages in any gun related activity , they can represent all gun owners, not just themselves....

I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor
Andy
 
I would like some fellow gun owners to play devils advocate and try to convince me as to why I should give up any of my gun rights. Any takers?

To be honest anyone asking me why they should give them up, shouldn't have them. Not directing at you OP, just answering your question.
If one has to ask why they shouldn't have something, probably they shouldn't have it.o_O
This is no supporting answer to this as to remove rights voluntarily is lunacy.

( A bit like asking someone, convince me why I shouldn't protect myself )
 
To be honest anyone asking me why they should give them up, shouldn't have them. Not directing at you OP, just answering your question.
If one has to ask why they shouldn't have something, probably they shouldn't have it.o_O
This is no supporting answer to this as to remove rights voluntarily is lunacy.

( A bit like asking someone, convince me why I shouldn't protect myself )
Ok I am shelving this idea. I was motivated by Steven Crowder's Change My Mind segments but I don't think it will work in a internet format. For those who haven't seen Crowder's Change My Mind segments here is the one he did on being Pro-Gun:
 
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Ok I am shelving this idea. I was motivated by Steven Crowder's Change My Mind segments but I don't think it will work in a internet format.

I had an idea, you were heading that way from him, problem is he is seeking non-thinkers that actually don't know why they do something. Most here do. I mean if you were on a ceasefire forum that would work as they are all drones anyways.
I have no idea why I wouldn't want my right to protect myself maybe some liberals would is what I am saying. Sorry didnt mean to crap on your lawn, and I did get and appreciate the effort in it, just around here most people will go huh?
 
I tried to read this thread, but I gave up rather quickly. The title itself even made me reconsider a few times before actually clicking. No offense intended.
 
I had an idea, you were heading that way from him, problem is he is seeking non-thinkers that actually don't know why they do something. Most here do. I mean if you were on a ceasefire forum that would work as they are all drones anyways.
I have no idea why I wouldn't want my right to protect myself maybe some liberals would is what I am saying. Sorry didnt mean to crap on your lawn, and I did get and appreciate the effort in it, just around here most people will go huh?
It was my intent to see if anybody here wanted to role play as my target audience. I didn't messaged it right.
 
@tourproto 's response was what I was after but maybe a bit more on the serious side. I enjoyed his response too.

@arakboss, kinda hard to be serious about having this discussion because the other side isn't willing to engage rationally, only emotionally.

"if it saves one life..."
"kids shouldn't be afraid of going to school..."
"guns are dangerous, only police/military should have them..."
The list goes on and on.

Hell, 250,000 deaths occur every year due to PREVENTABLE medical errors. This is more than 10x the total number of gun deaths. And this number is from Johns Hopkins, a pretty reputable source: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. - 05/03/2016

If the lefties are so concerned about saving lives, how about getting the medical profession to list "medical error" on a death certificate (they don't do this today, gee I wonder why...). That might start to point out issues that should prevent a ridiculous number of deaths.

The tactic to "ban assault weapons" is just total smoke and mirrors:
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Even if you took all "Firearms not stated" and put them into the "rifles" category it would still not equal the number of homicides due to handguns. So the argument to "ban rifles" is just crap because if they wanted to save the most lives, they would ban handguns. But it is a "softer target" to go after "assault rifles" so they do.

And my personal favorite is deaths due to drunk driving: The CDC (another reputable source) has 10,500 people dying from drunk driving in 2016, that is more than all firearm deaths combined (and pretty sure includes suicides). So why aren't folks screaming to ban alcohol? Oops I guess we already tried that one, I guess it didn't work out so well.
Impaired Driving: Get the Facts | Motor Vehicle Safety | CDC Injury Center

Bottom line, there are a lot of other places to address issues that would save lives. And when it comes to firearms, they aren't even going after what would make the most sense (2nd amendment notwithstanding). I would actually have more respect for them if they went after the handguns "as the leading cause of firearm deaths" which at least stands up to factual scrutiny, instead of the total malarkey of going after "assault rifles" to "save the children" etc, when they account for only a fraction of firearm deaths. But they know they can't win a handgun ban, so they go after something they think they can, and hope to nibble away at the edges and one day get the handguns too.

There is nothing logical or honest about what they are trying to do. It is all based on fear-mongering and emotion and that is why you can't have a logical argument with them. Throw any of the facts above at a gun-grabber and all you will hear back is that you are a "godless child killer". They can't handle the truth about guns and they don't want to.
 
@arakboss, kinda hard to be serious about having this discussion because the other side isn't willing to engage rationally, only emotionally.

"if it saves one life..."
"kids shouldn't be afraid of going to school..."
"guns are dangerous, only police/military should have them..."
The list goes on and on.

Hell, 250,000 deaths occur every year due to PREVENTABLE medical errors. This is more than 10x the total number of gun deaths. And this number is from Johns Hopkins, a pretty reputable source: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. - 05/03/2016

If the lefties are so concerned about saving lives, how about getting the medical profession to list "medical error" on a death certificate (they don't do this today, gee I wonder why...). That might start to point out issues that should prevent a ridiculous number of deaths.

The tactic to "ban assault weapons" is just total smoke and mirrors:
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Even if you took all "Firearms not stated" and put them into the "rifles" category it would still not equal the number of homicides due to handguns. So the argument to "ban rifles" is just crap because if they wanted to save the most lives, they would ban handguns. But it is a "softer target" to go after "assault rifles" so they do.

And my personal favorite is deaths due to drunk driving: The CDC (another reputable source) has 10,500 people dying from drunk driving in 2016, that is more than all firearm deaths combined (and pretty sure includes suicides). So why aren't folks screaming to ban alcohol? Oops I guess we already tried that one, I guess it didn't work out so well.
Impaired Driving: Get the Facts | Motor Vehicle Safety | CDC Injury Center

Bottom line, there are a lot of other places to address issues that would save lives. And when it comes to firearms, they aren't even going after what would make the most sense (2nd amendment notwithstanding). I would actually have more respect for them if they went after the handguns "as the leading cause of firearm deaths" which at least stands up to factual scrutiny, instead of the total malarkey of going after "assault rifles" to "save the children" etc, when they account for only a fraction of firearm deaths. But they know they can't win a handgun ban, so they go after something they think they can, and hope to nibble away at the edges and one day get the handguns too.

There is nothing logical or honest about what they are trying to do. It is all based on fear-mongering and emotion and that is why you can't have a logical argument with them. Throw any of the facts above at a gun-grabber and all you will hear back is that you are a "godless child killer". They can't handle the truth about guns and they don't want to.
Yeah it's sad. I am trying to be optimistic and keeping up hope that there are a few reachable souls out there. Thanks.
 
Now I'm thinking about trading my gun in for a set of balls!

a fun activity? Have you ever heard of bocce ball? Very difficult game, requires lots of hand/eye coordination and is an easy replacement for target shooting and you don't even need to find a gun range to shoot at and you can play with multiple friends at the same time! You can do this in your yard or at the nearest playground. Why go through the hassle of having drive someplace to shoot a silly old gun, when you can practice hand-eye coordination activities right in your own backyard, and no noise to bother the neighbors either. You can buy a set of balls for the price of one box of 45acp ammo and it will last for years of enjoyment, instead of going pew-pew and the fun is all done in 15 minutes.
 

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