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I-594 details?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by twoclones, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Is there a detailed explanation of I-594 somewhere? I'd like to read it along with someone's notes explaining what the various sections mean in layman terms.
     
  2. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Of course not. If people saw the loopholes in 594, they would vote against it.
     
  3. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    All the more reason I would think someone with legal experience would be producing a reference. I am working on one this morning but I have zero legal training :(
     
  4. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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  5. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Riot and 8ball like this.
  6. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Not as detailed as I'd hoped to find but both places helped.
     
  7. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, what is it you're looking for?

    As far as getting a complete explanation, you can get a half dozen ones, some might be different than others.

    I was sitting in Oly at the public hearing, and it was clear that the proponents of this dog really didn't know what was in their own measure. They claimed at one point that "they didn't think" it would require background checks for certain things when clearly their own measure says such checks WOULD be required. NRA's Brian Judy told the committee that it doesn't matter what the proponents "think," it only matters what a JUDGE THINKS if you're ever charged.

    Satterberg told the Times editorial board that he didn't think anyone would ever be prosecuted for just loaning a gun to a buddy for a weekend bird hunt, and that raises the question: If you're not going to enforce a law, WTF are you supporting it?

    But this says it all: Two major state rank-and-file law enforcement groups are against I-594 and FOR I-591. To date, NO law enforcement group has come out in support of I-594.

    If the cops think this thing sucks...it probably really S-U-C-K-S.
     
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  8. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    According to "Ballotpedia", (emphasis in orange is mine)

    The Washington Universal Background Checks for Gun Purchases, Initiative 594, is on the November 4, 2014 ballot in the state of Washington as an Initiative to the Legislature.

    If approved by voters, the measure would require background checks to be run on every person purchasing a gun in the state of Washington, even those who are doing so via private sales. However, transfers of antique guns and those between immediate family members would be exempt from the background checks.

    The measure also requires that dealers who are facilitating gun transfers, be they through the licensed dealer or a private seller, receive confirmation in writing from the chief of police or sheriff that the purchaser in question "is eligible to possess a pistol [...] and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff."
    (Note: this is exempted if the purchaser has a CPL in Sec. 5, 1 (a))

    Furthermore, the initiative would render it illegal to hand off a firearm to people outside a person's immediate family, though exceptions are mentioned, including situations in which people are at a shooting range or hunting.

    Here is the initiative itself, I hope this will be sufficiently detailed.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Initiatives/Initiatives/INITIATIVE 594.pdf
     
  9. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Dave. I have compiled a lot of what I am looking for but my list is unfinished. One example of the kind of thing I have found but I have not seen talked about is:
    Section 3:
    (f) The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; {skip down to}
    or (v) while hunting if the hunting is legal in all places where the person to whom the firearm is transferred possesses the firearm and the person to whom the firearm is transferred has completed all training and holds all licenses or permits required for such hunting, provided that any temporary transfer allowed by this subsection is permitted only if the person to whom the firearm is transferred is not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law;


    The way I read this, one is allowed to loan a rifle to their spouse for hunting. Unless they happen to be going to Oregon to hunt and don't have a Washington State hunting license. In that case it would be a felony to transport the borrowed firearm anywhere in Washington.

    This I-594 is a real mess! I have made an new set of my little poster images for anyone to use just like they owned them. I'll add them to my Second Amendment Images for FREE thread.
     
  10. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Section 1 says:
    "Background checks would not be required for gifts between immediate family members or for antiques."

    To me, this means that Loaning a firearm to my grandson, without a background check, would be a crime.
     
  11. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Looks like loaning to somebody is OK for specific purposes is OK so long as the following conditions are met:

    "...
    (iv) to a person who is under eighteen years of age for lawful hunting, sporting, or
    educational purposes while under the direct supervision and control of
    a responsible adult who is not prohibited from possessing firearms; or
    (v) while hunting if the hunting is legal in all places where the
    person to whom the firearm is transferred possesses the firearm and the
    person to whom the firearm is transferred has completed all training
    and holds all licenses or permits required for such hunting, provided
    that any temporary transfer allowed by this subsection is permitted
    only if the person to whom the firearm is transferred is not prohibited
    from possessing firearms under state or federal law;..."


    "Family or household member" means "family" or "household member" as used in RCW 10.99.020."

    and

    "A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents, children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;..."

    Non-emergency loans between family are not discussed as far as I can see.


    Let's just defeat this and pass I-591 and we'll be OK for the time being. 594 is giving me a headache, just reading it.

    More here: http://wagunrights.org/
     
  12. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Conditions like you have to be at a government recognized gun range before loaning a pistol to your spouse :( At your property in the mountains would require a background check by an FFL and the Sheriff.
     
  13. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Yet another potential issue. What's to stop Seattle's anti gun chief of police to decline to issue such confirmations?
     
  14. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    The part that is IMPOSSIBLE is the section that requires the CLEO to sign off on every transfer done without a CPL. Can you imagine how impossible this is? What chief or sheriff is going to certify every transfer as being kosher? Are they kiddin' me?

    It's crazy, which is probably the best thing about the initiative from our perspective.
     
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  15. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    Also, 'recognized' range is not defined in 594.
     
  16. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Gottlieb opens fire on ‘dueling initiatives’ as Mass. antis show intent

    Bellevue gun rights advocate Alan Gottlieb, whose Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is on the front lines in a battle over gun rights in Washington State, unloaded on Initiative 594 yesterday during an interview with KTTH radio’s Ben Shapiro, warning that “The devil is in the details of 594.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/gottlieb-opens-fire-on-dueling-initiatives-as-mass-antis-show-intent

    POGR
    12500 N.E. Tenth Place
    Bellevue, WA 98005
    ATTN: Phil Watson

    http://wagunrights.org


    or

    Washington Citizens Against Regulatory Excess (WeCARE)
    12500 N.E. 10th Place
    Bellevue, WA 98005
    425-454-4911
    www.WECARE2014.org
     
  17. ak56

    ak56 Carnation, Wa Active Member

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    Look closely at that hunting "exception". Since it is not legal for them to hunt in my living room, or upon the local and state streets and highways, I would have to travel with them to wherever they are planning to hunt before I could hand them the gun.
     
  18. ak56

    ak56 Carnation, Wa Active Member

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    There is an exception for your spouse. Anyone else would require the background check.

     
  19. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    That exception is for ONLY at government authorized shooting range.
     
  20. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Getting the permission from the Sheriff to loan a gun to your spouse for her to use while you are away from home could take 30 days. Without that permission and transfer approval in writing, it would be a felony for her to transport the gun to the range for some target practice.

    I-594_30Day.jpg