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I can't debate the same point over and over.

I've read all this thread and I'm still not sure what you want. The closest I can come is that you want proactive measures to be put in place by pro-gun activists. But I wonder, since libs don't follow the laws we already have, what makes one think that any proactive legislation would change things?

I'm not going to try to please the anti-gun people with "common sense" regulations. Because when I look back, it's never enough for them. They get a restriction in place, there is a shooting somewhere, and they want more. They will never stop.

The reality is that gun-ownership has lost favor in much of our society. We have already lost. Those with control of the education and media have the power to shape opinion, and then those that scream the loudest are the most successful in promoting their agenda.

Progress? In what direction? Every time I hear "progress" it's bad. We live in a world that is changing. The young want the old to get out of the way. OK. Just be warned... progress is futile... may they get the society that they deserve! My great grandkids are going to have to deal with it. :(:(:(
 
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Not EXACTLY true.

The Treaty limited the arms held by the Govt. (for Govt usage). Not so.....for civilian arms. But then of course, as time went on some of those same "civilian arms" were the basis for the secret re-arming as Germany rebuilt.

As for Hitler's relaxation? LOL. Rrrright.....certain trusted Germans could have arms. And the prohibited "undesirable people" were barred from arms. You call that a relaxation?

Aloha, Mark

Reading link: How the Nazis Used Gun Control | National Review

and one more: The Past as Prelude: Nazi Disarmament and the U.S. Gun Grab


The 1938 Nazi gun law did relax German gun laws that had been passed in 1928 under the Wiemar Republic for the vast majority of Germans. Of course that did not include Jews but that was the reality of Germany at the time. The policy of the Nazis treated different groups differently but for the majority or ethnic Germans the '38 law greatly relaxed the earlier Wiemar restrictions for most Germans. If the majority of Germans had wanted to fight the Nazi's they would have. Most Germans bought the party line hook line and sinker or just didnt bother fighting it . In any case yeah, the '38 law did greatly relax German gun laws. Jews in Germany constituted less than 1% of the populace and were never well armed even pre Wiemar . The notion that they were going to stop the Nazi's by being heavily armed and militantly resistant is ludicrous and is a post war concept.
 
Joined Nov 2018, immediately engages in long dialog regarding 'reasonable restrictions.' Enough said.

THIS is exactly why gun control is so easy. Gun owners look for ANY reason to criticize any other gun owner. Did I mention I'm a liberal gun owner? No, because I wouldn't have gotten a single intelligent response at that point.
This thread has descended so far into isolationism, protectionism, and fear that's it's essentially worthless.
 
THIS is exactly why gun control is so easy. Gun owners look for ANY reason to criticize any other gun owner. Did I mention I'm a liberal gun owner? No, because I wouldn't have gotten a single intelligent response at that point.
This thread has descended so far into isolationism, protectionism, and fear that's it's essentially worthless.

Gun control actually isn't easy, far from it. If gun control were easy the liberal left would have already succeeded in completely stripping an individual's right to own firearms in the USA, a fact that is indisputable with quotes directly from prominent members of the Democratic Party stating desires to do just that. Their end goal, that they have yet to achieve.

Regarding you personally. You have simply demonstrated yourself to be part of a list of newly joined members who immediately seek to discuss limiting an individual's rights and how that idea is, according to you, reasonable. It's not that you, your actions or demeanor so far has portrayed yourself to be anything particularly special, it's just that you put yourself into the pattern that they have all reliably followed.

From my experience, a person's beliefs can effectively be summed up into two categories. They either believe an individual has the right accorded to them by the constitution and ALL of its amendments, or they don't. There is no middle ground, everyone in the middle simply just haven't been honest with themselves about what side of the line their believes take them.

Liberal gun owners are the equivalent of chickens championing for Colonel Sanders. They are possibly the single most contradictory set of coexisting thoughts a person can have. On one hand the willful possession of firearms, a right acknowledged by the 2nd amendment. On the other, supporting a party that for decades has been continuously advocating for the abolishment of said right, often by whatever means necessary. This however is a discussion for another topic, in another thread.

Enjoy the forum, but don't expect to express views related to limiting people's rights without respondents taking the idea rather abrasively. Who would have thought American's would get agitated when their rights are being threatened or felt they were being treated unfairly by a government that continually proves to be corrupt, lawless and operates with disregard to the people they supposedly serve, it's not like Americans have ever fought wars before for those very same reasons. Perplexing, I'm sure.

As to your evaluation of the worth of this thread, consider that your opinion, and only your opinion can determine for you how much worth this thread can hold for you. Others for example may find this thread to be extremely worthwhile, but find specific commentators input to be of particular worthlessness. Perception is an individual experience.
 
The 1938 Nazi gun law did relax German gun laws that had been passed in 1928 under the Wiemar Republic for the vast majority of Germans. Of course that did not include Jews but that was the reality of Germany at the time. The policy of the Nazis treated different groups differently but for the majority or ethnic Germans the '38 law greatly relaxed the earlier Wiemar restrictions for most Germans. If the majority of Germans had wanted to fight the Nazi's they would have. Most Germans bought the party line hook line and sinker or just didnt bother fighting it . In any case yeah, the '38 law did greatly relax German gun laws. Jews in Germany constituted less than 1% of the populace and were never well armed even pre Wiemar . The notion that they were going to stop the Nazi's by being heavily armed and militantly resistant is ludicrous and is a post war concept.

As for the relaxed* gun laws for Germans (but not ALL Germans).....because of A.H.

Within a decade, Germany had gone from a brutal firearms seizure policy which, in times of unrest, entailed selective yet immediate execution for mere possession of a firearm, to a modern, comprehensive gun control law. Passed by a liberal republic, this law ensured that the police had records of all firearms acquisitions (or at least all lawful ones) and that the keeping and bearing of arms were subject to police approval. This firearms control regime was quite useful to the new government that came to power a half decade later.

I see your relaxation as a prelude to the eventual confiscation and elimination of........(I'll stop right there).

Then the "realities" of the day..........
It hasn't been 250 years yet. But, having the past laws for the benefit of the vast majority of slave owners...also worked with slavery.

And, I never said (nor imagined at any time) that a few armed Jews, would have STOPPED the Nazis.

Aloha, Mark

*OK, Ok, ok......there were laws in place (back in 1919) that allowed German people to be dragged out of their homes and shot in the streets for possessing a firearm. And later......the laws were "improved", to allow that to happen to only people from certain anti-government and/or members of undesirable groups. Truly, that was a great success for the relaxed German gun laws under A.H.
 
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As for the relaxed gun laws for Germans (but not ALL Germans).....



I see your relaxation as a prelude to the eventual confiscation and elimination of........(I'll stop right there).

Then the realities of the day..........
It hasn't been 250 years yet. But, having the past laws for the benefit of the vast majority of slave owners....also worked with slavery.

And, I never said (nor imagined at any time) that a few armed Jews, would have STOPPED the Nazis.

Aloha, Mark

I'm not sure you understand the European concepts of ethnicity. We equate ethnicity with race and nationality is something you can earn over time. That was not the case in Germany and to a large extent that is still not the case today. To the Nazi's the Jews, even though they had been in Germany since the 4th century , were not Germans and could never be Germans. They were auslander to be eliminated. Aryan Germans had rights above and beyond what the Jews could have. To the Nazis the Jews were not Germans no matter how long they had lived in the area. Germans could own guns. Jews, Gypsies , political dissidents, homosexuals and other enemies of the state could not. It was an Us v. Them mentality and it was not something unique to the Nazi's. It predated the Holy Roman Empire. Acknowledge it or not the '38 was for the overwhelming majority of the Germans a dramatic relaxation of ownership and transfer laws compared to the '28 Wiemar regulations and especially the 1919/20 regulations that had essentially stopped the transfer of arms in the face of the real possibility of Communist/Freikorps revolutions. Wiemar and Nazi Germany were both horrid places. The '38 law at least allowed for orderly firearms transfer and some measure of handgun ownership and carry. It wasnt right to bare arms as we know it but it was something. Back to the ethnicity question the Nazi's didnt go around confiscating German owned guns. Jewish guns yes but that was never laid out in the '38 law as it was part of earlier legislation.
 
concepts of ethnicity

I'm speaking about..........

Humans.

Doesn't matter black, white, brown, green, or whatever religion, etc...

Aloha, Mark

Germans could own guns. Jews, Gypsies , political dissidents, homosexuals and other enemies of the state could not.

It wasn't always that way. It depends on the time period that you are speaking about. So then with the "relaxation of the gun laws".....

Rrrright….
Relaxing gun laws for Germans (read as: NAZIs and/or future NAZIs), while strangling the rights of others.
 
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concepts of ethnicity

I'm speaking about..........

Humans.

Doesn't matter black, white, brown, green, or whatever religion, etc...

Aloha, Mark

Germans could own guns. Jews, Gypsies , political dissidents, homosexuals and other enemies of the state could not.

Yes, That would not correspond with contemporary 1930's German understanding of ethnicity or even the modern European understanding of ethnicity.
 
LOL....

Ethnicity? European thinking?

I don't care.

Should I even try to discover/delineate/define who is who?

Some have said that ALL Germans (speaking about those that lived and worked in NAZI GERMANY) were NAZIs. Why even try to make a distinction? Or split hairs? Rrrrright......Albert Speer was a "Good Nazi"? And, I should feel bad because......Dresden was firebombed.

Aloha, Mark
 
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Your lack of caring doesnt change facts on the ground in 1930's or the fact that the 1938 Nazi gun laws were a vast expansion of firearms rights for the majority of Germans.
 
LOL......

But.....with a just a few little "improvements", it will get there.

The great society.

Where only the Police, Military and other Govt and trusted individuals will be allowed guns.

CAMPGUNFREE.jpg

Schindler-s-List.jpg

Aloha, Mark
 
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Im not saying everyone should keep stepping up and capitulating to appease those in favor of gun bans. I think we do need to ensure that anyone who is prohibited from having a firearm (yes, I know, "shall not be infringed means EVERYONE is allowed guns) should not have one. Aside from building a list of "registered gun owners" (again, your Hitlerstory) I think running a NICS is the least invasive. And making an additional law that says it can't go farther. In essence, reinforce the Amendment. Gun banners would then try to add people to the list, based on health history, false restraining orders, etc. Make laws preempting any of this. Have to be a step ahead.

I'm old enough and learned long ago that leftists don't want reasonable laws. They want total bans, and do so incrementally. We should not need "more clear" laws explaining the plain language espoused in the 2A. We need judges to enforce it.

We - as a society - are so far afield of that language it's unbearable. We have allowed the 2A and other rights to become mockery of the intent. Our "shall not infringe" now looks like this:
* Background checks - essentially government permission
* Wait periods
* Arbitrary and pointless design bans
* Ammunition bans
* Magazine capacity bans/restrictions
* Felony persons prohibited
* Misdemeanor DV persons prohibited
* Pre-emptive "extreme risk" ex-parte bans on ownership (violating the 2A and 4A)
* Carry restrictions and bans for regions or locations
* Home manufacturing bans
* Mental health check bans
* Drug user bans
* Taxes and fees for ownership (poll tax anyone?)
* Mandatory storage requirements
* Transportation laws
* Accessory bans (suppressors)
* # of guns per month restrictions

And on and on and on... This is plainly "infringement" and nowhere NEAR what our founders had intended - to basically allow the government to deny you your 2A right, and fairly arbitrarily or by mob rule, or by a complaint by a angry neighbor, family member, etc.

History is a good educator. We see in history:
* Those with the most guns, win.
* Those who win, hold the power.
* Those who hold the power, control everything.
* Those who control everything, write history.
* Those who lose, serve the winners or suffer and probably die.
 
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I'm old enough and learned long ago that leftists don't want reasonable laws. They want total bans, and do so incrementally. We should not need "more clear" laws explaining the plain language espoused in the 2A. We need judges to enforce it.

We - as a society - are so far afield of that language it's unbearable. We have allowed the 2A and other rights to become mockery of the intent. Our "shall not infringe" now looks like this:
* Background checks - essentially government permission
* Wait periods
* Arbitrary and pointless design bans
* Ammunition bans
* Magazine capacity bans/restrictions
* Felony persons prohibited
* Misdemeanor DV persons prohibited
* Pre-emptive "extreme risk" ex-parte bans on ownership (violating the 2A and 4A)
* Carry restrictions and bans for regions or locations
* Home manufacturing bans
* Mental health check bans
* Drug user bans
* Taxes and fees for ownership (poll tax anyone?)
* Mandatory storage requirements
* Transportation laws
* Accessory bans (suppressors)
* # of guns per month restrictions

And on and on and on... This is plainly "infringement" and nowhere NEAR what our founders had intended - to basically allow the government to deny you your 2A right, and fairly arbitrarily or by mob rule, or by a complaint by a angry neighbor, family member, etc.

History is a good educator. We see in history:
* Those with the most guns, win.
* Those who win, hold the power.
* Those who hold the power, control everything.
* Those who control everything, write history.
* Those who lose, serve the winners or suffer and probably die.
Bingo, spot on.
The left plays a long game with total disarmament as the the ultimate goal.
Hence every "reasonable" or "common sense " gun law is actually nothing but a take away setting up for the next take away.
Their idea is compromise is only taking part of what we have now but always with their eye on getting it all at some point in the future.
 

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