"hypothetical" post self defense shooting.

[wichaka]

The statement that robctwo made about LE people was inflammatory and not necessary.

Others along with myself didn't care for the comment, as it was out of line.

 

[GUN1PDX]

I found this well worth the watch....

<broken link removed>

I am a law abiding citizen, and will always help the LE if needed, however this is good info. Also watch the Detective's reply to this.

 

[watchman]

While the premise of this thread was what to do in a post self defense shooting, it is also important to remember that this is an open ended hypothetical situation. It was also intended to advise us of what would be most prudent and beneficial to YOU, if you had been involved in such an incident. Everyone has their own ideas about this, but the best advice will come from legal or law enforcement professionals. After following this thread for awhile, I noticed that the conversation had become something of a contest between two posters, Wichica and Robctwo. As I am somewhat new here, I am generally not aware of what occupation any of the members of this site hold in the "real world", and I am sure that I am not alone in this. It became fairly clear to me though that what I was reading was a LE vs. lawyer argument. So here's my two cents worth. First of all, let's remember that the person we are trying to protect is ourselves. There is a lot at stake here. You could be prosecuted and go to jail. You could be sued. You could lose your job, your home, your assets, your friends. The strain on your family would be immense. If you are convicted of anything over this event, you would also lose your gun rights. FOREVER. Robctwo had it exactly right. You should say NOTHING to the police. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. That includes what you say to an officer before he arrests you and reads you your rights. There is nothing at all to be gained, and a lot to lose if you speak to them. Unless you are a stone cold killer, and I doubt any of you are, after shooting and or killing someone you are going to be a basket case. Your adrenalin level will be high, your thoughts jumbled. You might not even be able to speak clearly, let alone coherently. In such a situation, even if you tried to limit your "help" to the LE responder to the three things Wichica suggested, you probably would be unable to do so. Every "fact" that you present to the responding officer would elicit a dozen questions for clarification. In trying to help get the investigation rolling in the right direction, you could easily miss or omit something that might be instrumental in proving your innocence later. If you do, and you try to add these facts later, it will appear that you are changing your story to a judge and jury. Worse yet, in your confused and upset condition, you might actually get the facts confused, and that will definitely not play well in court. While Wichicas advice might be helpful and beneficial to LE, it is not going to help YOU. This is not to say or imply that LE is out to get you. But remember, LE people are fallible too. They might not remember exactly what you said, word for word, but just the gist of it. That doesn't mean that they won't swear in court that that was exactly what you said. They might seriously believe that it is! Again, the whole point is that YOU are trying to protect YOURSELF!! If you say nothing, you may look uncooperative, and may even be arrested until the facts are sorted out, but that pales in comparison to saying something stupid that will have far more dire and long lasting consequences. I know that this is frustrating for LE, BUT again it should be YOU that YOU are worried about. Rest assured you will have plenty of time to talk about it later in court. Also, while I would not say that all LE officers are out to get you, there will almost certainly be some who don't like guns, particularly in the hands of civilians. This is also true of some District Attorneys, many of whom have proven to be no friend of the average gun owner. You never know when the circumstances of your case might play into the political aspirations of an ambitious DA. You wouldn't want to be made an example of. In any case, silence is golden, you have every right under THE CONSTITUTION to plead the fifth, and you should do so. And last, I would respectfully suggest that you, Wichica, do indeed owe Robctwo an apology for your comment about "ambulance chasing attorneys". After reading and re-reading the entire exchange several times, I don't believe he was making a blanket statement about ALL LE personnel saying you had no right to an attorney, etc., but was instead trying to play the devil's advocate in a hypothetical situation, to try to show how easily one might inadvertently incriminate himself. I doubt he was aiming that comment at you, or any other LE professional in particular, only the possibility that such things could (and have) happen. In fact, I doubt he even knew or thought that you were LE. And maybe you aren't. As I said in the beginning, I am somewhat new here and don't really know what people do as their job. Having said that you Wichica, took offense to the comments of someone who was merely trying to help us uneducated types to understand, how best to protect ourselves. However, it is clear that you knew exactly what Robctwo's profession is, since you asked him, and he told you. You have since stated that his comments offended you, as well as others on this site. So you decided to make a comment about "ambulance chasing attorneys". If I were Robctwo, I would have been offended too. As it is, I guess I'm just disappointed. We should all be willing to give, as well as take. This forum should encourage the exchange of ideas, even those we might not personally agree with. Two wrongs don't make a right. Defend your Constitutional rights, and don't be afraid to exercise them!

 

[Deavis]

I have seen armed citizens use deadly force in the past - with effect, as an LEO. I have also seen them tackle, run over and beat bad guys (who had it coming). The vast majority of the time the good guys want to talk - they want to explain. It is the byproduct of being an innocent person being possibly accused of something bad and you want to tell tell tell it was all ok (BTW LEOs do the same thing after their use of force most of the time). EVERY time the force used by the citizen was A) REASONABLE and B) JUSTIFIED there has been no prosecution. But - we have a pretty conservative county. If not REASONABLE or JUSTIFIED.... expect prosecution.

As far as being a basket case following a traumatic incident - that will depend on YOUR level of training. The higher the level of training and forethought the less chance of "basketcaseness" after. training does not only encompass the physical acts but the mental preparation and seeing it through - all the way - through grand jury, not just the bad guy (or gal) making the carpet angel in your living room. Build the WHOLE incident into your scenario training. You will be bettter off.

 

[watchman]

For sure, you are right about the training. And of course, when you are in the right, you want to tell your story so that you may be vindicated. But most people are not going to get the level or amount of training an LE professional is going to receive. For them, this is going to be traumatic. Even LE personnel get rattled occasionally when they have to use deadly force. That's one reason why they often go on leave after such an incident. And while, in your experience, every time the use of deadly force was both reasonable and justified, there was no prosecution, you also stated that you were in a pretty conservative county. This is not the case in the larger metro areas. It's not worth the risks to say anything to LE until you have council present. It's YOUR life and well-being at stake. If you were acting reasonably and were justified in your actions, it won't hurt to let those facts wait for awhile, you will probably be vindicated. And again, this is NOT meant as a slam or insult to LE. I have nothing but respect for them and the job they do, and I salute them. But you can be your own worst enemy by talking prematurely. I wouldn't want to run across the rare officer or worse yet, politically aspiring DA that might want to see your head on a platter for their own ambitions. It might only be a one in a thousand kind of chance scenario, but you wouldn't want to be "the one". Millions of people buy lotto tickets everyday against far steeper odds. Better to keep quiet and let things unfold in court.

 

[Deavis]

Watch - you saw my earlier "mantra"?

 

[watchman]

Sure did. Good advice!

 

[RainbowBob]

this thread made me think. I am interested in non lethal bullets of sort that would go in my guns or maybe even in a .22 pistol or something small. Cuz I'm all for self defense but I would hate to kill someone, even if they deserve it

I suggest you do some more thinking. While I understand your sentiments (normal people don't WANT to kill anybody), it has been well-established that self-defense with a firearm is reserved ONLY for instances when you have reasonable fear of death or life-threatening injury.

At such a perilous moment, your goal is to END the threat - not kill somebody. However, you must be prepared to use lethal force in order to successfully end the threat. If you are not willing to use lethal force (and that is strictly a personal choice) - you should NOT be carrying a firearm of any kind.

Rubber bullets and the like (and many will argue .22s) will put you MORE at risk by pissing off the assailant without taking him out.

Fugeddaboudit!

 

[The Dude]

I found this well worth the watch....

<broken link removed>

I am a law abiding citizen, and will always help the LE if needed, however this is good info. Also watch the Detective's reply to this.

I'll second this, well worth the watch indeed.