Hypothetical: Best firearms/etc. for N. America 15,000 years ago??

[The Heretic]

If you were transported back about 15,000 years ago to N. America, what firearms would you want to have available?

Assume that you would be solely on foot (could take something that you could pull behind you, like a Dixon roller pack) - at least until you could capture a horse/camelid/etc and tame it. Assume no resupply - what you have with you is what you have for the rest of your life there.

Bear in mind this would be a time when there were Smilodons (saber tooth tiger), bear dogs or at least dire wolves, and other large dangerous predators, mastodons, bisons and other megafauna.

There are also the Native American humans.

I am thinking a Marlin '95 carbine in .45-70 with various ammo, a very lightweight (less than 2 pounds) suppressed (integral) bolt action rimfire .22 rifle, a high capacity (probably 9mm) SIG or CZ semi auto pistol, and my S&W 329 revolver (I would be more likely to always have it on me than my 460V). An alternative to the Marlin would be a Browning BLR in a heavy (325 WSM) magnum caliber or .450 Marlin. I would prefer a lever action over a bolt action when dealing with dangerous game.

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[RedRover]

Likely something in Nitro Express for taking down those Mastodons.

 

[The Heretic]

Likely something in Nitro Express for taking down those Mastodons.

And what would you do with a mastodon once it was down?

Bear in mind there are plenty of other game animals, and that an elephant has been taken down with a 7mm Mauser. I would prefer something more versatile than an elephant gun. Something that could be loaded up or down with a wide range of bullet weights and styles - probably a .300 magnum of some sort?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

If you were transported back about 15,000 years ago to N. America, what firearms would you want to have available?

Assume that you would be solely on foot (could take something that you could pull behind you, like a Dixon roller pack) - at least until you could capture a horse/camelid/etc and tame it. Assume no resupply - what you have with you is what you have for the rest of your life there.

Bear in mind this would be a time when there were Smilodons (saber tooth tiger), bear dogs or at least dire wolves, and other large dangerous predators, mastodons, bisons and other megafauna.

There are also the Native American humans.

I am thinking a Marlin '95 carbine in .45-70 with various ammo, a very lightweight (less than 2 pounds) suppressed (integral) bolt action rimfire .22 rifle, a high capacity (probably 9mm) SIG or CZ semi auto pistol, and my S&W 329 revolver (I would be more likely to always have it on me than my 460V). An alternative to the Marlin would be a Browning BLR in a heavy (325 WSM) magnum caliber or .450 Marlin. I would prefer a lever action over a bolt action when dealing with dangerous game.

My BHA lever action in 460 S&W with suppressor, possibly the one in 500S&W on order instead. A TC encore with a .22 and a .32 fed magnum barrel, and an MPA defender. And knives, an axe or 3, and a spear. Probably a 357 mag redhawk as well. The mpa defender as well as the revolver. would be an edc on a sling and since no NFA it would be stocked with a folding elftman stock. The lever would be for big game hunting. The defender for when things got hairy with predators. Encore for small game hunting.

 

[Diamondback]

I'd say you'd better take something you can make your own powder and ammo for. @Andy54Hawken would probably fare better than most of us...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A 03A3 Springfield would be my firearm of choice...

With that said...
I'd rather have my Osage Orange longbow , one of my spears and my favorite knife...my Blackjack Model 5...
Given the circumstances.

My job would to survive , not conquer the land...seems to me at least , it would be best to think like prey and avoid interaction with anything.
Andy

 

[Diamondback]

Ironic, my path of choice if I HAD to go would be to drop in somewhere where the locals aren't totally hostile and start trying to ratchet up the timetable for the march toward modern technology...

 

[The Heretic]

I'd say you'd better take something you can make your own powder and ammo for. @Andy54Hawken would probably fare better than most of us...

The .45-70 was originally a BP cartridge.

Most any straight walled cartridge could use BP?

I would not be concerned with reloading as I would still and projectiles and probably primers. I would just try to be conservative with ammo for hunting - .22 rimfire is small and light.

 

[TTSX]

How much ammo? I suppose it doesn't really matter as my choice for any survival situation will always be a Mossberg 500/590 as the ammo versatility can't be overstated. 12ga, of course.

 

[The Heretic]

My BHA lever action in 460 S&W with suppressor, possibly the one in 500S&W on order instead. A TC encore with a .22 and a .32 fed magnum barrel, and an MPA defender. And knives, an axe or 3, and a spear. Probably a 357 mag redhawk as well. The mpa defender as well as the revolver. would be an edc on a sling and since no NFA it would be stocked with a folding elftman stock. The lever would be for big game hunting. The defender for when things got hairy with predators. Encore for small game hunting.

I've thought about the .460 mag, but the .45-70 is more versatile, has much better penetration when using heavier projectiles, so the only advantage of the .460 mag would be the revolver would shoot the same ammo, but that 460V is a heavy beast.

An Encore would be good for small game. A Contender would be lighter though.

 

[filsonhand]

My BHA lever action in 460 S&W with suppressor, possibly the one in 500S&W on order instead. A TC encore with a .22 and a .32 fed magnum barrel, and an MPA defender. And knives, an axe or 3, and a spear. Probably a 357 mag redhawk as well. The mpa defender as well as the revolver. would be an edc on a sling and since no NFA it would be stocked with a folding elftman stock. The lever would be for big game hunting. The defender for when things got hairy with predators. Encore for small game hunting.

How do you like the BHA in 460 ? I've been mighty tempted on getting one of those myself. I'm a sucker for a good lever action

 

[Diamondback]

Unless you go flintlock or similar, primers and reforming cases would still be a major issue. Sort of like a what-if novel I recall where a carrier battlegroup with an airwing of navalized F-22s somehow Philadelphia Experimented back to WWII, and the admiral in command had to tell FDR that "once our F-22s are gone they're gone, we can't build more or even repair the ones we DO have once the spare parts run out, but right now with your manufacturing capacity and our engineering data we CAN give you a ten-year headstart with A-4 Skyhawks that originally first flew in the 1950s."

 

[The Heretic]

How much ammo? I suppose it doesn't really matter as my choice for any survival situation will always be a Mossberg 500/590 as the ammo versatility can't be overstated. 12ga, of course.

As much as you can carry. Weight and size would be an issue. Remember, no resupply - what you got is what you have. There will be no one else with ammo - only you. The only other humans will have spears and possibly archery at best.

A combo rifle/shotgun would be one alternative, but in my experience, they are heavy, except for the M6 Scout. I think a T/C Encore might be a better choice though, and there are some integrally suppressed barrels for the Encore.

 

[TTSX]

As much as you can carry. Weight and size would be an issue. Remember, no resupply - what you got is what you have. There will be no one else with ammo - only you. The only other humans will have spears and possibly archery at best.

A combo rifle/shotgun would be one alternative, but in my experience, they are heavy, except for the M6 Scout. I think a T/C Encore might be a better choice though, and there are some integrally suppressed barrels for the Encore.

I would think unless someone chose something in a pistol caliber or a rimfire, we're all gonna be hurting bad for ammo. Looks like the majority would like large, heavy hitters. Fortunately, I would think once you're established, the use of the firearm would be a rare thing indeed. Maybe you'd be lucky enough to have 10k rounds you could set up in a permanent camp? I just can't think of any gun I own that can do more with less. Interesting topic to consider for sure

 

[TTSX]

The next thought I have is: are we transported individually, or everyone in this thread? Because I don't want to get into a shootout with Andy and is '06 . I think being tiger food is preferable

 

[Diamondback]

The next thought I have is: are we transported individually, or everyone in this thread? Because I don't want to get into a shootout with Andy and is '06 . I think being tiger food is preferable

I hope individually, because if you jokers drag me along on this safari where I don't wanna go I'm gonna be PISSED. That said, it IS a good Thought Experiment for prepping in case these BurnLootMurder pukes get their way and tear it all down and we have to figure out how to rebuild the world...

 

[The Heretic]

A 03A3 Springfield would be my firearm of choice...

With that said...
I'd rather have my Osage Orange longbow , one of my spears and my favorite knife...my Blackjack Model 5...
Given the circumstances.

My job would to survive , not conquer the land...seems to me at least , it would be best to think like prey and avoid interaction with anything.
Andy

Nothing precludes you from taking both archery and firearms, no contraints on anything except weight and size constraints - whatever you can take with you that you can haul on foot - no pack animals or motorized vehicles.

I personally would go for something like the Dixon roller pack, but custom built to my specs, and I would have most of my gear on that hauling mechanism - it would also serve as a game hauler.

I would probably have some kind of archery (maybe a take down bow and a crossbow) and spear and other gear, but I was more interested in what firearms would be taken - the rest would be interesting too, but I have my own preferences there (knives, my Half-a-Chance parang, my British belt axe, probably a regular full sized axe, a folding bow saw or two with spare blades, survival augers and so on).

But back to firearms, the fact that there would be no resupply allows me to choose something beyond common calibers because there would be no interchanging of ammo with anybody else, so what I would have would be it - so no downsides to magnums/etc. with regards to getting more ammo. Maybe a BP muzzle loading barrel for a T/C Encore - but caps/primers would still be an issue, and making BP? Not sure about making BP powder from materials found in nature - not to mention I would still need projectiles and/or something to cast them - weight wise it might just be better to take the equivalent weight in ammo.

 

[The Heretic]

The next thought I have is: are we transported individually, or everyone in this thread? Because I don't want to get into a shootout with Andy and is '06 . I think being tiger food is preferable

You and only you, by yourself. No other persons from the future.

 

[Member 34319]

Suppressed 300 blackout. Or heavy suppressed cartridge like the 338 specter in a lightweight carbine with 30-60 round magazines. As many loaded magazines in a push cart as able to push with other necessary gear to live. Likely light body armor as well and other misc protective gear light flash grenades and such. A flare could very well scare the crap out of anything alive back then.

Quiet when needed, heavy hitting when needed, lots of available ammo via larger capacity magazines.

 

[The Heretic]

I would think unless someone chose something in a pistol caliber or a rimfire, we're all gonna be hurting bad for ammo. Looks like the majority would like large, heavy hitters. Fortunately, I would think once you're established, the use of the firearm would be a rare thing indeed. Maybe you'd be lucky enough to have 10k rounds you could set up in a permanent camp? I just can't think of any gun I own that can do more with less. Interesting topic to consider for sure

Bear in mind that Smilodons can be up to 900 pounds in size, not to mention other megafauna that was dangerous (not just predators). I would recommend something that can penetrate deep into large animals.

Late Pleistocene extinctions - Wikipedia

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