Hypothetical: Best firearms/etc. for N. America 15,000 years ago??

[Camelfilter]

Uh, I thought the premise was ONE gun? Not the contents of Cabela's on Sales Day.

If you were transported back about 15,000 years ago to N. America, what firearms would you want to have available?

 

[tac]

Ah, OK. Sorry. Just that standing there, all alone, in what might well be an instantly hostile environment, the last thing I'd want would be to have to either make a life-changing choice, or assemble the gun I REALLY wanted to use.....

 

[Camelfilter]

Ah, OK. Sorry. Just that standing there, all alone, in what might well be an instantly hostile environment, the last thing I'd want would be to have to either make a life-changing choice, or assemble the gun I REALLY wanted to use.....

Yah, extremely thought provoking exercise! What firearms being just a portion of such. IMO.

What firearms to have at hand tho. At all times, until you could get a reasonable assessment of the predators / other wildlife / people, while building temporary shelter, finding water, foraging, planting...then building permanent shelter.

I'm leaning towards PS90 SBR, (at all times for the unplanned), with a 10/22 to bring along for planned hunting/varmenting. Perhaps a .300 blk bolt gun. Still waffling on 5.7 vs 9mm sidearm.

 

[Dinglenutz]

The noise of even a single gunshot would be THE loudest non-natural noise ever heard.

I always have trouble defining non-natural in contexts like this.

 

[The Heretic]

Yah, extremely thought provoking exercise! What firearms being just a portion of such. IMO.

What firearms to have at hand tho. At all times, until you could get a reasonable assessment of the predators / other wildlife / people, while building temporary shelter, finding water, foraging, planting...then building permanent shelter.

I'm leaning towards PS90 SBR, (at all times for the unplanned), with a 10/22 to bring along for planned hunting/varmenting. Perhaps a .300 blk bolt gun. Still waffling on 5.7 vs 9mm sidearm.

I would go for 5.7 instead of 9x19 due to the efficiency of the former with regards to how much ammo I could carry on my person.

 

[The Heretic]

Uh, I thought the premise was ONE gun? Not the contents of Cabela's on Sales Day.

Nope - as many guns as you can carry or transport. You cannot use any kind of motorized transport; i.e., anything you take with you would have to be moved with your own "manpower" - e.g., you could use a cart, travois, etc., but you would have to move it thru a "portal" with on your own, no help from a motor/engine/etc. nor a horse/etc., nor another person.

What you do with the method of transport once it is on the other side of the "portal" is up to you. Once thru the portal/doorway/etc., you and your supplies/etc. at stuck there. No coming back, no multiple trips.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Setting aside the mundane stuff like a well stocked e-reader, notebook PC, solar charger/battery, flashlights, water filtration and purification, fire, medicine, fishing gear, and so on, I'd stand pat w/ the PMR-30 and my silencer equipped AR in 300 BLK. Probably add a crossbow for hunting, maybe. It might be worth its weight in ammo if the stay is extended.

 

[The Heretic]

Setting aside the mundane stuff like a well stocked e-reader, notebook PC, solar charger/battery, flashlights, water filtration and purification, fire, medicine, fishing gear, and so on, I'd stand pat w/ the PMR-30 and my silencer equipped AR in 300 BLK. Probably add a crossbow for hunting, maybe. It might be worth its weight in ammo if the stay is extended.

The "stay" would be a one-way trip. You would be stuck there for the rest of your life.

While it would interesting to hear what other things someone would take along, since this is a firearm sub-forum, I elected to restrict the subject to firearms and not open it up to other items in general.

 

[Dinglenutz]

You would be stuck there for the rest of your life.

So not likely to be very long then .....

 

[OldBroad44]

Uh, I thought the premise was ONE gun? Not the contents of Cabela's on Sales Day.

Nope. OP asked what firearms, plural, we would want available, and his own choice involved four. My choice was only three. OP said nothing about extra copies of each of choices. He did say a person-drawn cart was okay. I figured without roads or groomed paths that could expand carried goodies carried across time barrier to perhaps 400 lbs for me , more for a bigger stronger male. Though I recall pushing a heavy pickup on a slight uphill slope for about ten feet to let guy start it--to his total amazement. Much experience plus wheels are lovely. But after transition through time barrier most of that weight would need to be cached.

One gun question is interesting too though. If in this situation I could only have one gun, I would take the scoped suppressed 10/22 with mounted flashlight and multiple mags including 30-rounders. Seems to me a 22 is the only option if you want to be able to shoot with any regularity and hope to live 20 years or more.

 

[OldBroad44]

The "stay" would be a one-way trip. You would be stuck there for the rest of your life.

While it would interesting to hear what other things someone would take along, since this is a firearm sub-forum, I elected to restrict the subject to firearms and not open it up to other items in general.

We have to think about other non firearm equipment in addition to guns. We have to envision possible ways of living or we can't imagine what firearms we would want. And fact is, many of us are interested in survival and woodscraft and hunting and fishing as well as guns.

Very interesting topic.

 

[The Heretic]

We have to think about other non firearm equipment in addition to guns. We have to envision possible ways of living or we can't imagine what firearms we would want. And fact is, many of us are interested in survival and woodscraft and hunting and fishing as well as guns.

Very interesting topic.

And anyone is free to start a thread in the Preparedness/Survival sub-forum along those lines - I would find that interesting too - but I think there are probably a bajillion threads somewhat like that out there on the internets. I didn't want this thread to go off in million different directions and instead stick to guns.

 

[OldBroad44]

And anyone is free to start a thread in the Preparedness/Survival sub-forum along those lines - I would find that interesting too - but I think there are probably a bajillion threads somewhat like that out there on the internets. I didn't want this thread to go off in million different directions and instead stick to guns.

Thread would have been boring if it was just a list of guns. You can set up initial situation. But telling us to limit our thoughts to just what you say-- ha ha. Fagetaboutit.

 

[The Heretic]

Thread would have been boring if it was just a list of guns. You can set up initial situation. But telling us to limit our thoughts to just what you say-- ha ha. Fagetaboutit.

You are free to post whatever you want to any thread (within the rules for the forums). I was just stating my intentions.

FWIW, I don't think this thread has been boring and it has been mostly about guns.

 

[OldBroad44]

You are free to post whatever you want to any thread (within the rules for the forums). I was just stating my intentions.

FWIW, I don't think this thread has been boring and it has been mostly about guns.

Its been one of the all-time most interesting threads. But it has been only partly about guns. I couldnt even figure out what guns I wanted until I had thought about boats and fishing gear and poaching style hunting vs ODFW 2021 rules, and planting fruit trees and building a tree house.

 

[The Heretic]

Its been one of the all-time most interesting threads. But it has been only partly about guns. I couldnt even figure out what guns I wanted until I had thought about boats and fishing gear and poaching style hunting vs ODFW 2021 rules, and planting fruit trees and building a tree house.

I still have not figured out what I would want - I keep vacillating on the choices - mostly between general purpose and specialization. If I had the time and $ to prepare for such an endeavor, I would probably buy quite a number of candidate guns and test them out. I would also probably wind up with a mix of general purpose and special purpose guns.

 

[OldBroad44]

I still have not figured out what I would want - I keep vacillating on the choices - mostly between general purpose and specialization. If I had the time and $ to prepare for such an endeavor, I would probably buy quite a number of candidate guns and test them out. I would also probably wind up with a mix of general purpose and special purpose guns.

Right. You bring up another issue. Do we assume just the skills and knowledge we now possess? Or do we include other skills and knowledge we would learn if we knew ahead of time we were going to do the 15000 year jump and had, say, three years to prep. When I finally made my list including the firearms and everything else, I assumed just the knowledge and skills I have. This includes woodscrafts, guns, hunting, fishing, small boats, gardening, plant breeding, and dog training. But not archery or bow making or flint knapping, which would be very nice to know. But I cheat too, and assume an age lower than my 75 by at least a decade or two.

 

[The Heretic]

Assume that you have 6 months preparation time.

I would assume that a person in good health could manually move (pushing or pulling) a 4 wheeled cart that had a mass of 1000-2000 pounds. I have been able to push cars that weighed considerably more than that on a level surface. Assume the surface on the entry side of the portal is level and that you had 50 feet of runway. What is on the other side might not be level, but would be clear for 50 feet.

Given that, a person could take a lot of gear/supplies with them. They may not be able to move it far (or at all) once on the other side, but they would probably have the gear/supplies.

 

[OldBroad44]

Assume that you have 6 months preparation time.

I would assume that a person in good health could manually move (pushing or pulling) a 4 wheeled cart that had a mass of 1000-2000 pounds. I have been able to push cars that weighed considerably more than that on a level surface. Assume the surface on the entry side of the portal is level and that you had 50 feet of runway. What is on the other side might not be level, but would be clear for 50 feet.

Given that, a person could take a lot of gear/supplies with them. They may not be able to move it far (or at all) once on the other side, but they would probably have the gear/supplies.

Right. Remembering that big pickup I pushed slightly uphill with a big guy and lots of gear in it, and figuring needing to move cart only 100 feet, I can see 1000 - 2000 lbs of cart plus gear possible even for me. That's way more than I was assuming.

I'm assuming that landing site would be on the bank of a major river. Or on the coast or a bay or lake. That is, a good site to camp. The sorts of places Indians settled. ??? Assuming a random landing site doesn't work. It could be in the ocean. Or in the middle of the Willamette or Columbia in winter when its a raging torrent full of huge trees. Or in a desert days from drinkable water. Somewhere lethal. If the landing site is random, I ain't goin'.

 

[Camelfilter]

Right. Remembering that big pickup I pushed slightly uphill with a big guy and lots of gear in it, and figuring needing to move cart only 100 feet, I can see 1000 - 2000 lbs of cart plus gear possible even for me. That's way more than I was assuming.

I'm assuming that landing site would be on the bank of a major river. Or on the coast or a bay or lake. That is, a good site to camp. The sorts of places Indians settled. ??? Assuming a random landing site doesn't work. It could be in the ocean. Or in the middle of the Willamette or Columbia in winter when its a raging torrent full of huge trees. Or in a desert days from drinkable water. Somewhere lethal. If the landing site is random, I ain't goin'.

... No guarantees on what the conditions would be at the specific spot you would "land" - just in general other than you wouldn't be in the middle of the ocean - it would be land, and relatively safe (not stuck on the side of a cliff). So you might not be able to move your large stash very far, if at all.

I personally would think I could not move something that weighed half a ton, regardless of how it was carried. But worst case, you would have to abandon some of it.

I'd definitely be an overloaded cart taker, as well as near to overloaded on body carry as possible. Including about anything I could think to increase weight bearing & load pulling capacity for "the short pull" thru whatever portal. Knee braces / back brace etc.

Heck I'd put an extra metal cook pot on my head over a bump helmet, if I could too.

Dump everything on the other side, then gear up again to see what's what...