Hypothetical: Best firearms/etc. for N. America 15,000 years ago??

[Andy54Hawken]

It's been decades since I read it last. I am going to read it again. I suspect it will be a bit dated maybe, but still worth the read. For some things like books and movies, it is worth partaking of them again from the different perspective that a few years gives.

For me at least...Heinlein is always worth a read and re-read.
And what you say 'bout the different perspective when re-reading or re-watching is very true.

Some books and movies have a lasting impact....Tunnel in the Sky is one of those for me.

I hope you enjoy your re-read of it.
Andy

 

[tac]

Let's reset the posit.

This is a one-way event - you go, but you can't come back.

And it's what you can carry on your body and still walk, not the entire contents of Cabela's and Chapters..

 

[arentol72]

I figure I can carry about 80lbs, for a while, until I settle in. No more than about 30lbs of that can be spared for firearms, ammo, and associated maintenance gear combined. The rest has to go to other survival gear.

Maintenance gear will be a small kit with a bore snake, many replacement brushes, and a few small bottles of oil and cleaning fluid (separate smalls to avoid total loss if one is damaged or lost). This is ~2lbs.

Handgun will be a Smith and Wesson Model 617 6" barrel. Highly accurate 10 shot .22lr revolver. Reliability is very high on this gun, it will last my lifetime. 2.7lbs. I am not counting the holster or belt for this as the weight is cared in a way that shouldn't really affect my limit.
Rifle will be a Ruger 10/22 takedown lite with 8 BX-1 10rnd magazines and a suppressor (Not sure which one, but one easy to maintain and long lasting). Total weight, ~7lbs.

I will also need a plastic ammo can/drybox with a padlock, about 1.3lbs. (though I am considering metal, might be some advantages)

I would not bring a scope, iron sights are more than sufficient for me to hit at the ranges I would need to with either gun.

That totals 13lbs, leaving 17lbs for ammo. 22lr is about 133 rounds/lb, so that is about 2300 rounds. Lets just round up to 2500, that is 1.5lbs over my limit, but close enough, and 5 boxes of 500 will fit nicely in my ammo can with room to spare for some other items that need to stay dry. 1000 round will be subsonic.

The reason I am going with .22lr, besides the fact that if I went with even relatively light-weight .223 I would have less than half as much ammo available, is because I am not surviving that long on my own anyway. My top priority, after a two week self-quarantine (to minimize the diseases I am passing on), will be to find a local tribe and fully ingratiate myself with them. Once that is done large animals should not be a serious threat since I won't have to fight them alone. .22lr will be just as impressive as any other size ammo to these people. The ability to wound larger game animals from a long distance, making them easier to chase down, will be invaluable to the tribe, so the fact I can only occasionally drop a deer quickly won't matter. My ability to combat groups of enemies (like other tribes), if any will be functionally unaffected by the size of the ammo I am using, and it will be more important to never run out of ammo than to make big holes.

Another thing I would do is never reload in front of people or show them my bullets, and try to never use all the rounds in a magazine or the revolver so they appear to be endless and magical. They should believe they can't take them from me and use them.

Some of my other survival gear weight will be dedicated to things to help the tribe, not my own survival directly to help me become accepted.

I spend way too much thinking about this kind of thing (though only once someone asks about it).

 

[The Heretic]

I will also need a plastic ammo can/drybox with a padlock, about 1.3lbs. (though I am considering metal, might be some advantages)

For ammo, a metal can has real durability and carrying advantages. The Plano plastic cans suck for anything that is weighty; the lid will bend and expose the contents while being carried - the plastic is too thin and not durable. The MTM plastic cans are much better, but still not as good as a metal can. Over time the plastic of either brand would not last for field use carrying ammo.

USGI metal cans are made for rough usage. I would have the outside (and preferably inside too) sprayed with bedliner to make them even more resistant to abuse and rust - except probably where the gasket seals. I have not done this yet, but I would assume that the bedliner would mitigate the noise of the metal banging on things. I would maybe replace the metal handle with something else like paracord, or thicker synthetic rope, or something similar - at least wrap the metal handle with something. Sure I could do that later, but I would not want the handle to break while on the go.

 

[arentol72]

For ammo, a metal can has real durability and carrying advantages. The Plano plastic cans suck for anything that is weighty; the lid will bend and expose the contents while being carried - the plastic is too thin and not durable. The MTM plastic cans are much better, but still not as good as a metal can. Over time the plastic of either brand would not last for field use carrying ammo.

USGI metal cans are made for rough usage. I would have the outside (and preferably inside too) sprayed with bedliner to make them even more resistant to abuse and rust - except probably where the gasket seals. I have not done this yet, but I would assume that the bedliner would mitigate the noise of the metal banging on things. I would maybe replace the metal handle with something else like paracord, or thicker synthetic rope, or something similar - at least wrap the metal handle with something. Sure I could do that later, but I would not want the handle to break while on the go.

Yeah, those are some great points and ideas.

I am a little less concerned about the handle/lid because I would be carrying it in the bottom of a backpack until I was able to settle in somewhere permanent. However, even so metal with a good seal and bedliner would still likely last longer before the seal started to fail due to warping, even with careful transport so yeah I would probably do that.

 

[The Heretic]

If you are carrying a metal can in a backback, I would put rubber or leather or something on at least the lower corners/edges to reduce abrasion against the pack so it doesn't wear thru the material. I personally would custom build something similar (but more HD) to the Dixon roller pack to carry the heaviest items off my back.

Dixon Rollerpack

Dixon Rollerpack

dixonrollerpack.com

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Hatman1793]

As much as 22LR towers over almost every other caliber ammo in these circumstances, especially for weight, conceal ability & firearm selection, 22LR has serious deficiencies.
Even fast moving 36 grainers or supersonic 40 grainers, 22LR is still a soft bullet, easy to ricochet, deep penetration it is not, especially if outer clothing is substantial. One may find oneself firing multiple rounds of 22LR to quell a 4 legged beast or a two legged beast. Insufficient shot placement could mean another kill shot up close & personal or personally dispatching your assailant the hard way.
22magnum is a better 22. Faster, harder hitting, not lead but FMJ's & HP's. A bolt or semi-auto rifle means much further distance shots & better penetration. Even a single shot with a scope terminates the angry native posse boss from a good distance, & the posse members might not be able to easily find the shooter.
Sure, 22mag is a bit heavier but a way better choice over 22LR…thoughts?

 

[The Heretic]

Sure, 22mag is a bit heavier but a way better choice over 22LR…thoughts?

Better than .22 LR/L/S yes, with respect to power and effective range. But it would not be my only choice, given the fauna of the time. Rimfire is a last resort for defensive uses. Rimfire is also a poor choice for anything larger than a small canine.

Given that the fauna of 15K years ago were much more powerful, prevalent and predominant, not afraid of humans, and often larger than most wildlife today, one would probably want a quite powerful centerfire cartridge that would be more appropriate for such animals. I also would want a repeater, as it is quite possible that one shot might not dissuade an attacking short faced bear weighing in at 2K# or a Smilodon.

 

[nammac]

.45-70 Government, and a nice Henry repeater, that should do the trick…. More or less, makes eating squirrels out of the questions, there'd be nothing left "they be all blowed to smitherinies" as Yosemite Sam would say…

 

[The Heretic]

.45-70 Government, and a nice Henry repeater, that should do the trick…. More or less, makes eating squirrels out of the questions, there'd be nothing left "they be all blowed to smitherinies" as Yosemite Sam would say…

The OP has no restrictions on how many firearms you can bring, only that you must move everything that you bring under human power - no electric or ICE powered vehicles.