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I have been pondering real hard how to write this in a "neutral gender" kind of way as well as remain inside the law on rule #4. For the life of me I cannot seam to write in a way that puts folks at ease. The more I write, the more I learn, but a slow learner I am :)

Finding that right hunting load...

Quite a few folks hunt with this great Cartridge. However, many may not understand the cartridges full potential, although factory loads are perfectly capable of harvesting game animals...namely the Whitetail. For over 144 years, this cartridge continues to score food for the table as I did again last year!

A little food for thought...pay close attention...because my writing skills remind me of a song by Allen Jackson !!

Trying to replicate History...
It is very hard to "replicate" the original charge of black powder along with the original (427098) type lead bullet and maintain original ballistics and stay below max chamber pressures. Those early original loads catapulted a lead projectile downrange at 1,245fps and chamber pressures stayed below 13,000psi (SAAMI). The bullets were lubricated well enough to lob 30 shots 110 yards downrange and all hit inside a 4" circle without cleaning the barrel between shots (Doc Pardee 1875 Winchester catalog). It just didn't get much better than that. Even today shooters such as John Kort prove the ole' cartridge and it's original ballistics consistently hitting steel javelina at 300 meters (but with using a scope). The purpose was to prove the rifle/cartridge, not the shooter's eye sight! Results from my gel testing days..."75/1 bullets penetrated 27" of clear gel and expanded to .528"..."The handgun loads gave velocities from 941-963 fps at 10 ft., perforated and exited the 32" gel block"...excerpts taken from an article by Ed Harris, bullets cast by John Kort and gel shot test by Bryan Austin, from Bryan's not for profit/non-commercial web page Home | 44 "Winchester Center Fire". Proof the velocity does not have to be much to penetrate a typical whitetail.

posted here:, "w30wcf" shares the following in another forum.......

Reported exerts from a reprinted "1875 Winchester catalog" unknown

"factory 200 gr. lead bullet / 40 grs. black powder / 1,245 f.p.s

..."I have fully tested the late improved Winchester Rifle and take pleasure in stating that it is the best rifle I have ever used. I have killed a number of deer, at distances from one to two hundred yards and in every instance, the bullet passed clean through the body."

..."I killed at a full gallop, at about 100 yards distant, a very large buck with a splendid set of antlers with the first shot. The bullet struck him in the shoulder, as he ran toward me, and after traversing the entire length of his body, tearing the lights and paunch into atoms in its course, it passed out behind through the thickest part of the ham."

..."The killing qualities, at large game, is all that could be desired, to the wonder and admiration of the guides and sportsmen who saw its working during my visit to the Adirondack woods last fall."

..."I can say for one, that I think the Winchester Model of 1873 is the best firearm now in use for hunting and sporting; they give the best satisfaction to everyone that has used them here. James Gary and C.S. Martin have killed 17 bears and 100 deer since the first of September with Model 1873.

..."For a sporting rifle, I think the Winchester Rifle is excelled by none. I have killed antelope, deer, and elk, with my gun, at from 200 to 400 yards. I would not exchange it for any other rifle."

Long live the .44-40!"


<broken link removed> ...modern velocities are about 1,190fps, still well plenty enough to knock down a whitetail but accuracy plummets in many cases out to and past 100 yards. In addition to many firearm's differences in barrel sizes, tolerances, projectile weights and other sizes piled up on top of a somewhat finicky to load thin-walled cartridge....the 44-40 has achieved a very unfair but understandable bad reputation.

When a person begins to understand all of these issues, learns to adapt and overcome, a whole new world will open up. The 44-40 is actually a very multifaceted cartridge. From shotshells, round ball "game getters", 180gr XTP coyote loads to 240gr deer loads...from 50 yards to 300 yard options....decisions on a load can be almost endless not to mention the fact that you are enjoying a classic rifle cartridge along with the firearms chambered for it. Most modern weapons cannot compete with that list. <broken link removed>

Now we get to the good stuff....

Looking at Lyman's reloading manual #49 page 299, (Double check my numbers) Lyman lists several powders and charges for the 44-40. In particular, Lyman lists 2400 powder in use with the Speer 200gr JSHP bullet #4425. Lyman shows they use a 24" Universal receiver with 1:36" twist for these particular tests. Cases trimmed to 1.295 and an AOL of 1.600. Lyman's measurements (plus some of my misc. measurements) with Starline brass and, using QuickLoad...gives a bullet seating depth of .313" as well as the pressures noted below. Your mileage may vary.

Actual charges omitted for obvious reasons.... you must purchase Lyman's manual to find out!

Lyman Manual.... vs...QL (Quickload) Data

grains/powder/velocity/cup/QL psi CIP

Group I Rifles (weak actions) (Lyman lists ten rifles) .....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40
xxgr/2400/1,183fps/11,900/15,000 (fps=Current Factory Velocities) Normal Loads

Group II Rifles (strong actions) (Lyman lists nine rifles) .....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40
xxgr/2400/1,380fps/14,500/19,000 (fps=Original Historical Velocities) +P Loads due to higher than max pressures
xxgr/2400/1,638fps/19,000/25,753 (fps=1903 (1910) Factory "High Velocity" Replication) +P+ Loads due to excessive high pressure

Lyman also lists Unique and IMR4227 powders for Group II Rifles

My Goals....
Personally, I will not shoot anything in my Marlin with CIP estimated pressures over 26,000psi CIP, we all have our limitations, right? My first goal was to replicate the 1903, more yet...the 1910 "High Velocity" ballistics.... not to try and make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum as so I have been accused. I consider these HV loads as 44-40 "+P+" loads for those that like to use the "+P" status. My second goal was to share that my first goal is not needed to kill deer, but may highly improve accuracy out to 200-300 yards....again your mileage may very!

Somewhat of a conclusion...
Reputable writers have been using and publishing the +P type loads that replicate original 1,300fps velocities (but produce higher than black powder chamber pressures) in magazines and online articles for years.

For all the nay sayers, dudes, weekend range worriers and city slickers.... the loads are right there in the reloading manual!!

Not in Lyman's #49 but is in #47 is the 240gr lead bullet information and Reloder 7 that produce 1,200fps at "Group I" rifle category pressures. The same info is/was listed on Lee's 44-40 reloading 3-die-set pamphlet.

Although the modern 1,300 fps velocities replicate original velocities using both black powder and early smokeless powder, the modern pressures generated are above SAAMI/CIP max pressures. I call modern 1,300fps velocities +P loads because of the higher than standard pressures of the earlier black powder and smokeless powder ballistics. The 1,400fps-1,600fps step in velocities I call +P+ loads.

Again not trying to make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum.... simply just trying to get that projectile downrange accurately and maintain enough energy to knock down that whitetail :) The 44-40 is capable of distances further than 100 yards if the handloader does his homework.

HAPPY HUNTING!

CIP vs SAAMI Chamber Pressure Testing Methods
44-40 SAAMI Pressures, 13,000cup (page 21) and 11,000psi (page 33)
44-40 CIP Pressures, 15,000cup and 15,954psi

24799200_831132943733957_761815589439813149_o.jpg 24796357_831132817067303_5576383531217747252_n.jpg 24796473_831132807067304_409293499444626922_n.jpg 24312415_831132897067295_7226440102932078289_n.jpg
 
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Well I read the Thread but I'm still at a Loss as to what it was all about. Yes, the .44-40 is an example of one of the older cartridges that is still an excellent hunting round. But, I knew that without reading the Thread, so...
 
We don't hunt whitetail here.
In Oregon we have real Deer.

now now, don't get too excited.....some places they actually climb trees to go deer hunting....
I've come to appreciate the brilliance of the 1873 Winchester design as well.
And I've put a lot of the Holy Black rounds down range. Some day I may well take mine hunting.

ETA: I've enjoyed Marlins considerably as well. The last one I had was 45-70. The 1895 Cowboy 45LC version served the SASS needs well. I've never put a cluster in such a group as the OP above. Nicely done!
 
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I've never put a cluster in such a group as the OP above. Nicely done!

Thanks 41mag! One of the things I have been working on is just trying to bring my groups in tight, to prove the cartridge/rifle is better than most people give it credit for. I have an Uberti Winchester 73' but my eyes won't let me shoot tight groups at 100+ yards so I use my scoped Marlin 1894CB. That shot above in the OP was only from 55-65 yards and is the furthest one can see in those woods from that particular stand....and always right at dark. In the photo, I hit the deer about 4" higher than I was aiming. I claim he he ducked when I fired. :D Here are the details of that hunt. Nothing special...mostly about the caliber's capability rather than a special spectacular hunt.

Deadeye....I love the 45-70, my dad has one in a Winchester 1886 and I sighted it in for him at 200 yards. He has a scope too now....at age 76 he retired the iron sights. He took down three last year all at "one time" with a 30-06 @ 167 yards. He thought he missed the first two so he dropped the third one thinking it was the only one.....later to discover two on the ground and a blood trail that the first one left leading to a swamp where the trail was lost.

Although I see this forum is for Oregon folks, thanks for letting me in. :eek:
 
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The 44-40 is actually a very multifaceted cartridge. From shotshells, round ball "game getters",

Thought I would touch on this a tad more. Here are some more options that were available during 1912-1940

1912 -1940

During parts of this era, the .44 W.C.F. and .44-40 cartridges were offered in a variety of bullet weights:
· 122 gr. Round ball "Game Getter"
· 140 gr. Hi Speed Mushroom (jacketed hollow point) REM-UMC (Fastest factory loading – 2,000 f.p.s.).
· 160 gr. Hi Speed Mushroom (jacketed hollow point) REM-UMC (2nd fastest factory cartridge - 1,980 f.p.s.)
· 165 gr. Lead hollow point PETERS
· 166 gr. Lead Mushroom (hollow point) W.R.A. CO.
· 180 gr. Lead Mushroom (hollow point) W.R.A. CO.
· 200 gr. Lead
· 200 gr. Jacketed soft point
· 200 gr. Full patch
· 217 gr. Lead
· 217 gr. Jacketed soft point
· 217 gr. Full patch
· shot cartridges with wooden shot carriers
· shot cartridges with paper shot carriers
· shot cartridges with extended cases - shot contained inside
· blanks
~John Kort

"Two Peas In A Pod"

REM-UMC Hi-Speed .44-40 160 gr Mushroom ctg. of yesteryear
 
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44-40BunnyGun 002.JPG

ButtCuff.jpg PlinkersHollow.jpg

I was going to post these photos along with another story from Ed.....thought you guys might like to see them. Ed calls it his 44-40 "Bunny Gun"...lol

PlinkersHollow_zpsevaojidj.jpg
 
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