hunting with 357,44 mag,454,500

[DeanMk]

Hey, since we're discussing the .44 mag, something else just struck me, and this goes out to the whole board.

Back when I was a kid (late 60's/early 70's), I remember seeing the stats for the .44 mag as pushing a 240 gr. jacketed bullet out of the barrel at 1470 fps, developing 1150 ft/lbs. of ME.
This is out of a long barreled pistol, mind you.
I realize that over the years, the throttle has been pulled back on the .44 mag, but has anyone ever found a reliable handload that imitates those stats?


Dean

 

[44 Flattop]

Hey Dean

Yep, I read Skeeter a LOT back in 'the day'! I have a couple of his books too that my son has made off with..... I believe that his lead/tin ratio was 15/1 if I remember correctly. Its funny, my Dad never read gun books nor ever heard of Skeeter Skelton. BUT, back in the '50's he came up with his own lead/tin ration which ended up being........drum roll......15/1!

Out of my 4 5/8" .44 special I am getting a hair over 900fps with his load, and about the same from my 4" 624. And the same load out of a 20" Marlin Cowboy I am getting a hair over 1100fps. What a fantastic load from a rifle, very quiet, no recoil of course. I've already taken one deer with the load and the Marlin where I got over 24" of penetration. Imagine that, 1100fps with a cast bullet and 2 feet of penetration. Of course, the distance was 18 yards......!

I have 2 T/C's in .44 mag. I should amend that to say I 'used' to have. The 14" version I had rechambered to .444 Marlin, the 10" model is still a .44. Using SSK's 320gr mould, 328grs from my lead mixture, and 21.5grs of W296 gives me almost 1500fps and stays under 2" at 100 yards, with a 2X B&L scope. A real handful but does a great job on elk. I've used this rig for about 25 years now. I'll admit however, it is pressed into service most of the time for shooting the heads off of grouse since it is just so accurate. A lotta horsepower to kill grouse! Back before I swapped it off (dumb dumb dumb!) I had a Winchester Trapper that absolutely loved that load too, even though it is a plainbase bullet. Over 1500fps and tiny little groups from that little rifle with absolutely no leading. Don't believe I ever killed anything with that rifle/load combo but it sure was fun to use as a paper puncher and rock killer!

 

[44 Flattop]

Hey, since we're discussing the .44 mag, something else just struck me, and this goes out to the whole board.

Back when I was a kid (late 60's/early 70's), I remember seeing the stats for the .44 mag as pushing a 240 gr. jacketed bullet out of the barrel at 1470 fps, developing 1150 ft/lbs. of ME.
This is out of a long barreled pistol, mind you.
I realize that over the years, the throttle has been pulled back on the .44 mag, but has anyone ever found a reliable handload that imitates those stats?

Never tried. I always found that velocities between 1150fps and 1275fps, depending on what particular bullet used, seemed to perform best on game. Plus when you get upwards of 1350 the concussion is just more than I ever wanted to put up with. A 240gr jacketed to 320gr cast at lower velocities are much more comfortable.

 

[RallySoob]

sounds like some awesome bush guns you guys are talking about. would love to shoot one of them 44mag rifles one day

 

[Blitzkrieg]

sounds like some awesome bush guns you guys are talking about. would love to shoot one of them 44mag rifles one day

I've shot the .44 lever guns and they are IMO the perfect deer rifle for short range brush hunting. I used to have a .444 Marlin and that thing was a beast.. easily enough power for big elk or even moose, with the right load

 

[2506]

We're all on the same page defining a brush/bush gun as a fast handling short carbine--which is a good thing to have when hunting thick brush--and not that a short, fat slug has a higher propensity to shoot through shrubbery, right?

 

[DeanMk]

One other thing that will help define a "bush gun" (or maybe, a savvy bush hunter), is putting the forward sling swivel way out towards the end of the barrel.
That way, when carrying the gun, the end of the barrel will sit lower (in my case, it just peeks up over my shoulder), and virtually eliminates snagging the barrel on low branches and/or thick brush.
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44 flattop,

Thanks for the info. I am surprised the Skeeter load is that slow coming out of your rifle. I'd expect it to have an MV of around 1350 fps.
I like the "grouse load" too. That was funny. Kinda like going duck hunting with 40mm Bofors guns.



Dean

 

[44 Flattop]

I am surprised the Skeeter load is that slow coming out of your rifle. I'd expect it to have an MV of around 1350 fps.

I was somewhat surprised also. I had figured that it would be doing somewhere between 1250 and 1300fps from the 20" barrel, instead of 1113fps. Even from a 24" Marlin Cowboy it is doing only 1150fps.

Makes for a great trail rifle load and is very very quiet, something that I like when I'm hiking during the summer!

 

[DeanMk]

Well, not to alarm you but, I was just thinking that it may be a case of a really fast burning powder in a long barrel, except that you seem to get slightly better performance from an even longer barreled gun, so it may be the gun itself.
Do more powerful rounds, like a full-house factory .44 Mag round, show any signs of shell defomaity?
How's the headspacing and the barrel?
Just seems, from your last post, there may be some issue there.


Dean

 

[44 Flattop]

Oh, its just the powder. There is no problems with the rifle, I have 6 of the Marlin Cowboys and just got rid of a Winchester Trapper that all performed exactly the same way. This is just my fun hiking load for the most part. When I'm out actually hunting I use a 260gr cast bullet at a little over 1800fps with no problems.

 

[boots]

I am looking into getting a 44 mag for range shooting but also with the intent to someday hunt deer with it. Good info on this thread

 

[jer fly]

Ive hunted with several 44's and one 41. and have taken elk, deer and bear. along with countless lesser game. I prefer the old model rugers but killed last years buck with a sw 29-3 with 8 3/8 barrel. shooting 240grn hornady xtp on top of 24.5grns of H110 and mag primer. This gives velocity of 1440fps out of my pistol. Shot was at 85 yards and passed cleanly through both shoulders with perfect results. I tend to use more cast bullets do to cost, and have found them to preform very well, as long as there's good shot placement. I also have tried several scopes on pistols and have found that the lower the power the better. I have leupold 2X, 4X, and a new 2.5X-8x handgun scopes. the 2X is my choice. The 2.5-8 is way to big for me and would be better on a single shot rifle caliber handgun. Also with the 41 Ive found the cast performance 255grn LBT to be a very good bullet for large critters, and is capable a clean pass through even on elk.

 

[jer fly]

Handguns are very capable hunting tools but you must do your part and practice, practice, practice, until shot placement can be perfected. Varmint hunting in the summer makes great practice for the deer/elk hunt in the fall.

 

[Spitpatch]

2506 made a good point about "brush guns", that I am surprised nobody elaborated upon. The old myth that a heavy, slow moving large diameter slug "busts brush" better than other pills was well put to rest quite a long time ago. It is simply not true.

Jim Carmichael (shooting editor for Outdoor Life after Jack O'Connor), and a man of more than moderate experience tested this theory years ago. He constructed a "brush barrier" of dowels, randomly glued into a drilled plank (actually had to build this new each time a new cartridge was tested). Shot at a target behind the "brush barrier". Checked for accuracy delivered to the target, along with expansion upon arrival. I remember him complaining about how labor-intensive this was, and how careful he was to duplicate the barrier each time.

For 10 points, (no, not applied to your Cabela's charge card, just "funsies"), guess which cartridge/bullet combo did the very best? Keep in mind this was done in the mid-70's, and keep in mind what cartridges were "all the rage" for that time period. He tested all the old standbys for "good brush buster": .35 Remingon, .338 Magnum (heavy bullet), 444 Marlin, as well as garden variety stuff: .30-30, .270, .30-06, etc., etc., This example list is not all-inclusive of what he tried. All with factory loads, and with the heaviest bullets offered. Round nose when available (since this bullet style had the "reputation" of a brush buster). (Even did rimfire for the benefit of squirrel hunters trying to get ol'bushytail out of a tree.)

I'm posting a "leading thread" to this thread in the General Firearms Discussion forum, in order to get more participants.

I'll post his winner, after a few participate. You may already know that the result surprised even Jim.

I trust that tomcat will not consider this stealing his thread. No intent of that is meant.

 

[2506]

338-06?

 

[Spitpatch]

2506, you'd be closer with your moniker.

 

[Shooter98]

I'm think either the 250 Savage or 22-250. Only reason I say that is they both do well with short barreled rifles.

 

[2506]

257 Roberts?

 

[MA Duce]

I'm going to have to go with a .260 Rem. pushing a high weight bullet...maybe 140gr.

 

[Shooter98]

I'm going to have to go with a .260 Rem. pushing a high weight bullet...maybe 140gr.

The 260 is a fairly new and very impressive round.