hunting with 30.06, best round?

[sceeder]

I've taken 50+ deer with the 150gr sp and 5 elk with the 200gr nosler partition.

 

[osprey]

You certainly could do worse than the venerable O6 for and all around game gitter. I personally like the balance of trajectory and energy of the 165 gr bullet, but all that is needed is to find a reasonable bullet design and weight that you can place consistently and you have it made. Good luck and shoot straight.

 

[sceeder]

You're right Osprey. You need to find the bullet and load that fits you best.
Remember shot placement and accuracy is most important

 

[Earthian]

I agree with all who have said that each gun shoots different factory ammo a bit differently. It is best to find a round that works well with a given rifle.

My approach is to find good bullets, and since I shoot very little, I want to make each shot count. I sight in my rifle and handgun at my local range, then I hunt. Then I clean my guns and do it again the next year. I mostly practice with snap caps.

Once I found what studies indicated were very good bullets, then I bought a few boxes of different ammo using those well-performing bullets to find out what shot well in my gun. I've got a Savage 110 FP in 300 win mag with a 4x12 Leupold VX II with a range-finding reticle. It's a heavy barrel with a muzzle brake from jprifles.com.

I settled on Remington Safari Swift A-Frames in 200 grains, shooting at 2825 at the muzzle. It shoots accurately for me and my rifle. I usually group a bit under an inch at 100 yards, under range conditions with sandbags in back and my Versa Pod short bipod. My Accu-trigger is set for about 24 ounces of pull.

I can't say what would work well in a given gun, 30.06 or 300 win mag or whatever.

But the way I got to my cartridge of choice for deer and elk was to look at bullet studies. A bunch of them.

Some are below. I think there are many good bullets for 30.06 and other high powered, centerfire rifles. But a few stand out based on the tests. A cheaper bullet that rates well is the Winchester Power Point. The factory cartridge is quite inexpensive, less than half of my Remington Safari-Grade A-Frames. But I don't know how it groups in my gun.

Here are some of the bullet studies I've read:

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/oct97gggwinmags.html

This study favored the Swift A-Frame,

"Remington Safari Grade with a Swift A-Frame 200-grain bullet. Our testing demonstrated that this is the best round available for the .300 Winchester Magnum. Each bullet expanded well in all three mediums and retained most of its weight. It also delivered the most energy at 300 yards because it's a faster, heavier bullet than most of those tested."

but here is what they said about the Barnes:

"PMC with a Barnes "X" 180-grain bullet. This fairly expensive bullet solves the problem of core separation by not using a core. It's solid copper alloy, and it's too hard to expand very much. Barnes attempts to solve the expansion problem by fluting the inside of the hollow point. On impact, the point splits and folds back into four petals, which form a nice but small mushroom. Note that the bullet we tested in bacon did just that. But at higher velocities and heavier impact mediums, these petals break off. We sifted all four of them out of the sawdust portion of our bullet trap after the bone test. Only three of the petals broke off in the water test; we couldn't find any of them. But these copper slugs did retain most of their weight and there was a small amount of mushrooming even without the petals. Note: Handloaders should be wary of this bullet. It's hard and the engraving resistance is high. This leads to a steep pressure gradient, a large increase in pressure for a small increase in powder."

Here are a bunch more:

<broken link removed>

Notice the discussion of Barnes bullets here with petals that break off:

<broken link removed>

And the Swift A-Frame which doesn't break off.

<broken link removed>

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/xp3_1.html
through
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/xp3_9.html

<broken link removed>
http://www.reloadersnest.com/bullet_review.asp
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/best_biggame_bullets/index1.html
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/mar96premium.html

http://www.reloadersnest.com/review_result.asp?Bullet=Swift A-Frame
http://www.reloadersnest.com/review_result.asp?Bullet=Winchester Power Point

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html

 

[lucky guy]

First thing you need to do is get and read and reread the hunting regulations. Then read em again. Then take the hunter safety course if you haven't. You'll learn a lot of neat things.

You can find a single 30 caliber bullet for deer and elk, for a beginner it should be something in the 150 to 180 gr weight. For deer most any good quality cup and core, bonded or all copper bullet will do. For elk most people select a bonded or copper bullet to stand up to the bigger bones and to get deeper penetration that's handy for elk. There are some really good premium bullets sold in cartridges by Federal, Barnes, etc. If I was to choose just one for deer and elk and I didn't reload, I'd look for the 168 gr Barnes Tipped Triple Shock on either a federal or barnes cartridge. But I like the triple shocks a lot. This is where you'll get many different preferences, opinions, etc., and most based on good kills with a favorite bullet. Cool, all good.

Here's another piece to think about, you need to shoot a lot of practice rounds. You'll likely want a less expensive cartridge to practice with. You might not want to be spending $2 a round to practice. So, either set up to reload or look for basic cartridges like the Remington/Federal/Winchester cup and core rounds. Good luck finding those these days, although by fall that might loosen up a little.

You earlier mentioned small game. I and many others still shoot 22's more than any other round. That would be your most efficient practice round. An inexpensive Marlin/Savage/beehive Remington (like the 512 in the classifieds) is your friend.

Once you get set up that way, then the work starts learning the behavior of the animal, where they are and when, how to handle a downed animal. Elk don't look nearly as big standing 200 yds away as the do laying on the ground in front of you, and now you have to to break down the carcass and get it out. LOL

If you don't have experienced buddies make some new friends. There's a lot more (fun) to this than finding a bullet. Plenty of people willing to help if you go about it the right way.

 

[lucky guy]

I agree with all who have said that each gun shoots different factory ammo a bit differently. It is best to find a round that works well with a given rifle.

My approach is to find good bullets, and since I shoot very little, I want to make each shot count. I sight in my rifle and handgun at my local range, then I hunt. Then I clean my guns and do it again the next year. I mostly practice with snap caps.

Once I found what studies indicated were very good bullets, then I bought a few boxes of different ammo using those well-performing bullets to find out what shot well in my gun. I've got a Savage 110 FP in 300 win mag with a 4x12 Leupold VX II with a range-finding reticle. It's a heavy barrel with a muzzle brake from jprifles.com.

I settled on Remington Safari Swift A-Frames in 200 grains, shooting at 2825 at the muzzle. It shoots accurately for me and my rifle. I usually group a bit under an inch at 100 yards, under range conditions with sandbags in back and my Versa Pod short bipod. My Accu-trigger is set for about 24 ounces of pull.

I can't say what would work well in a given gun, 30.06 or 300 win mag or whatever.

But the way I got to my cartridge of choice for deer and elk was to look at bullet studies. A bunch of them.

Some are below. I think there are many good bullets for 30.06 and other high powered, centerfire rifles. But a few stand out based on the tests. A cheaper bullet that rates well is the Winchester Power Point. The factory cartridge is quite inexpensive, less than half of my Remington Safari-Grade A-Frames. But I don't know how it groups in my gun.

Here are some of the bullet studies I've read:

October, 97 GGG Win Mags

This study favored the Swift A-Frame,

"Remington Safari Grade with a Swift A-Frame 200-grain bullet. Our testing demonstrated that this is the best round available for the .300 Winchester Magnum. Each bullet expanded well in all three mediums and retained most of its weight. It also delivered the most energy at 300 yards because it's a faster, heavier bullet than most of those tested."

but here is what they said about the Barnes:

"PMC with a Barnes "X" 180-grain bullet. This fairly expensive bullet solves the problem of core separation by not using a core. It's solid copper alloy, and it's too hard to expand very much. Barnes attempts to solve the expansion problem by fluting the inside of the hollow point. On impact, the point splits and folds back into four petals, which form a nice but small mushroom. Note that the bullet we tested in bacon did just that. But at higher velocities and heavier impact mediums, these petals break off. We sifted all four of them out of the sawdust portion of our bullet trap after the bone test. Only three of the petals broke off in the water test; we couldn't find any of them. But these copper slugs did retain most of their weight and there was a small amount of mushrooming even without the petals. Note: Handloaders should be wary of this bullet. It's hard and the engraving resistance is high. This leads to a steep pressure gradient, a large increase in pressure for a small increase in powder."

Here are a bunch more:

<broken link removed>

Notice the discussion of Barnes bullets here with petals that break off:

<broken link removed>

And the Swift A-Frame which doesn't break off.

<broken link removed>

24HourCampfire.com - "Move Over Fail Safe" by John Haviland
through
24hourcampfire.com — "Move Over Fail Safe - Winchester's New XP3 Big-Game Bullet" by John Haviland

<broken link removed>
Bullet reviews @ www.reloadersnest.com
Best Big Game Bullets - RifleShooter
March, 96 Premium

Swift A-frame reviews @ www.reloadersnest.com
Winchester Power Point reviews @ www.reloadersnest.com

Terminal Ballistics

A lot of good info, some of it outdated with respect to the Barnes bullets though. They're grooved now and I don't know of anyone having pressure problems with them anymore. I mentioned before I'm partial to Barnes but only since they grooved them. But lots of good bullets out there these days, including the A-Frame.

This is hard for some new hunters to understand, but the gun and bullet have relatively little to do with a successful hunt. It's really one of the easiest things to get right. I hunt elk more than deer so I'll stick with that. It's a lot more about getting the animal in YOUR range, in YOUR sights, and all that in a place where YOU can get it out. All takes time to learn and figure out. It's also just a lot of hard physical work, you have to get to where they are (usually steep and difficult ground a ways in from the roads), hunt them for days on end, and then if you are fortunate enough to kill one, to get it out. People often overlook the fitness factor on their first time out for elk.

I didn't mean this to be a hijack and I don't think it is. I mean, you have to get the bullet in the rifle to the elk right?

 

[rgold1963]

I reload now because I can shoot a lot more for a lot less and I feel the quality is more consistent than factory ammunition but that said, I have shot a lot of deer and elk with plain old Remington 180gr core-lokt soft points over the years. Find them on sale so you can shoot a lot before hunting season gets here. Check places like "gun-bot" daily for pricing and then order some when they hit an affordable price. I have never seen a deer or elk be more dead from a higher priced round than the Remington. Shot placement is much more important than a fancy printed box or "magic" bullet.

Ron