Hunting vs. Plinking vs. Target competition rifle

iomatic · Jul 10, 2011

After reading the 'which AR/how much would you pay' thread, it occurred to me:

Which brand/cal. rifle would you pick (or top three of each category) and perhaps why?

Obviously there'll be a multitude of opinions but usually there are stand outs (like the LCP or G19).

Better yet what would be the best value list (price

erformance; I think they will be two different lists for most people)?

PDXSparky · Jul 10, 2011

I'd buy a Spike's middy, again, for best all around rifle value.

hermannr · Jul 10, 2011

Not being an AR guy (I'm more of a Rem 700 type) I cannot comment on a particular AR, but I can on the cartridge...6.5 Creedmore has got to be it. Supper accurate, big enough for Elk on down, and not that expensive or punishing if you relaod for your plinking.

I do remember reading an artical on an AR platform, in 6.5 Creedmore, that consistantly printed 1/2 mil or better. (If I remember correctly that was average of 10, five shot groups, by the tester, using a rest). Best target as one large hole. Phooy, can't find the magazine with that artical so I can give you a reference, but I remember being impressed.

rusobr2 · Jul 10, 2011

for myself i'm sticking with the 308 win. i'v done a lot of research on the difference,and what i came up with is BAAAA HUUUM BUUUUG !! the wide range of ammo you can buy over the counter for 308 is endless + the mil. 7.62x51 for plinking is the only way to go....... 7.62 mil. has less pressure then 308 win so no harm to gun.....here is a little reading from one of the other forums on the 6.5 vs 308=====

One of the big topics in the Gun rags is the new 6.5 Creedmoore cartridge. It's the usual yada, yada, yada. It's the latest and greatest so go out and buy one right away.

Lets look at the truth about the new cartridge (something you will not find in the gun rags).

Is it an accurate cartridge, yes. It has the potential (with modifications) to the rifle for shooting consistent ½ inch groups. But will an off the shelf rifle do it. Most likely it will not without modifications. More on this later.

Is it better than the .308. For all practical purposes, no. This statement you will never see in the gun rags.

The 6.5 Creedmoore development came about because Dave Tubb, a famous high power rifle shooter was looking for an accurate, efficient cartridge with low recoil which results in the low fatigue factor when shooting the national match course. This he achieved. But should the average guy scrape out his match grade .308 rifle for the newer 6.5 Creedmoore. I would say no unless your bank account is unlimited, as your gain in accuracy is hardly worth discussing. In my own testing the difference was barely noticeable between the match grade .308 and the Creedmoore. Recoil was slightly less with the 6.5

my opinion only .....steven

hermannr · Jul 11, 2011

That is Ok Steven, my dislike for the .308 (and 243) came in the military in the 60s with the M14. Too much recoil for what you get.

.257 Roberts was the light 6.5 back when I bought my Rem 700 back in '64. The Creedmore is available in an AR platform, to my knowledge the .257 Roberts is not. BTW: The 257 Roberts has been around is the '20s. I just like 6.5mm way better that 7mm or 7.5mm. Better sectional density, retains it's velocity downrange better for the same sized projectile,,,

I also own a .264 Win Mag. (also a 6.5mm) Now, if you like to get beat up, and want to shoot 1000 yard match you might like it better. Super on antelope and shooting coyotes and prairie dogs at 500 meters.

Just a good solid all around cartrige is the .257 Roberts, the 6.5 Creedmore fills that nitch nicely since you can't get a .257 in an AR platform. Reloading is still better way to go even with a .308 than Mil-surp.

Anyway, my opinion: and opinions are like behinds, everyone has one, and the all smell. (Including mine)

nitestocker · Jul 11, 2011

marlin XL7 3006 ive purchased two of these one blued and one in stainless both have shot under a inch 3 shot group at a 100 yards with 180 gr corelocks im sold on these there around 400.00 stainless and 325.00 blue . around 6.5 pounds come with accutrigger type trigger there a close copy of the savage model 110 but cost less very nice rifle

iomatic · Jul 12, 2011

So would you choose any specific model/cal for each category?

hermannr · Jul 12, 2011

iomatic said:
So would you choose any specific model/cal for each category?

For the AR platform: I have read good things about the DPMS Panther in 6.5 Creedmore. Our oldest daughter has one, but in 204 Ruger. 204 is not a cartridge you can hunt deer etc with in WA, and I think OR is the same way. There is an old article (Oct. 2008) in "Shooting Times" on the Panther in 6.5 Creedmore if you can find a copy of the old mag.

For a bolt action rifle, a 257 Roberts, or maybe the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. I like my Remington 700. You'd have to find used (like gunbroker) as I think Remington discontinued the .257 Roberts, at least in some versions of the 700. There are a lot of other manufacturers that make rifles in .257 Roberts, some better than others. Personally, I like my 700. I've owned it since new in 1964 and shot coyotes, gophers, deer, and my cousin took a small bear with it.

Just like an AR, With the 700 you can purchase a 700 action, then have a custom barrel installed and a custom stock, etc...all depends on what you want to do and how much money you are willing to spend.

rusobr2 · Jul 12, 2011

hermannr said:
That is Ok Steven, my dislike for the .308 (and 243) came in the military in the 60s with the M14. Too much recoil for what you get.

.257 Roberts was the light 6.5 back when I bought my Rem 700 back in '64. The Creedmore is available in an AR platform, to my knowledge the .257 Roberts is not. BTW: The 257 Roberts has been around is the '20s. I just like 6.5mm way better that 7mm or 7.5mm. Better sectional density, retains it's velocity downrange better for the same sized projectile,,,

I also own a .264 Win Mag. (also a 6.5mm) Now, if you like to get beat up, and want to shoot 1000 yard match you might like it better. Super on antelope and shooting coyotes and prairie dogs at 500 meters.

Just a good solid all around cartrige is the .257 Roberts, the 6.5 Creedmore fills that nitch nicely since you can't get a .257 in an AR platform. Reloading is still better way to go even with a .308 than Mil-surp.

Anyway, my opinion: and opinions are like behinds, everyone has one, and the all smell. (Including mine)

i 'll give ya that one on the recoil !..... i never realised the recoil was that much different between 308 & 6.5
i was raised on 30-06, so anything on lower recoil was a big improvement---i shoot a 99 sav. 308/ 150 gr., and maintain floating brl. one thing i do notice , it still has a little jump to it ! i get 3" moa at 100 but w/ my M/S it's hard to hold real steady ! my son has a blr in 308 & it appears to take the recoil totally different....like my 7mm bar , it pushes straight back ! maybe this is why they continue to make so many different guns !! LOL !

steven

hermannr · Jul 12, 2011

rusobr2 said:
i 'll give ya that one on the recoil !..... i never realised the recoil was that much different between 308 & 6.5
i was raised on 30-06, so anything on lower recoil was a big improvement---i shoot a 99 sav. 308/ 150 gr., and maintain floating brl. one thing i do notice , it still has a little jump to it ! i get 3" moa at 100 but w/ my M/S it's hard to hold real steady ! my son has a blr in 308 & it appears to take the recoil totally different....like my 7mm bar , it pushes straight back ! maybe this is why they continue to make so many different guns !! LOL !

steven

Sorry to hear about the MS Steven. I have a cousin in Sweden that has MS, Not good. Hope you are controlling yours.

When I was in Germany I got to qualify with the German Army FN FAL (the German .308) and it was night and day different than the M14. Same cartridge, felt totally different (and better, at least to me. I shot it much better than the M14) but I already did not like the 7.62X51 NATO cartridge so never have even had the inclination to buy one and I guess you can't now.

salmonriverjohn · Jul 13, 2011

Pipe dream,,, DPMS Panther in 25-06 :s0131:

. This "little" cartridge has a bunch going for it, and the bullet choices are almost endless. From elk to sage rats, there's something there for all seasons and reasons. Ok, Im awake now

.

hermannr · Jul 13, 2011

salmonriverjohn said:
Pipe dream,,, DPMS Panther in 25-06. This "little" cartridge has a bunch going for it, and the bullet choices are almost endless. From elk to sage rats, there's something there for all seasons and reasons. Ok, Im awake now.

257 Roberts and 25-06 use the same bullet it is .257" (or almost a 6.5mm) The difference is the 257 is based on the 7X57 Mauser cartridge, the 25-06 is based of a 30-06 cartridge.

there are several .264" versions of the 6.5 also. Many new ones. (Creedmore, Lapua) The top performing compitition target and hunting 264 (6.5) bullets are 140-142 grain, the top performing 257 is 117 -120 grain.

All the new 6.5mm Cartridges are designed for shorter actions (like the AR platform) and the cartridge is fatter rather than longer so it will cycle in the AR style action earier. There are .25-06 barrels available for the DPMS Panther, but I don't know how they make the work, the cartridge is too long.

iomatic · Jul 27, 2011

So are you all voting for an all-in-one, or separate for each category or two?

I guess hunting could also be game-subdivided; shotgun vs. rifle, etc.

Jamie6.5 · Jul 28, 2011

I like the 6.5mm bullet availability. So much that I built a 6.5x257Bob Ackley Improved.
It offers little more velocity than the .260Rem, which is just a (6.5X308Win casing) and is close on the heels of the 6.5X284Win, which is the hotrod in F Class at the moment.

But for ready-to-shoot gun/ammo, the .260Rem is a tough one to beat, and should fit well in an AR platform, due to the parent case. 7-08 would be my second choice in that platform, again due to high B.C. bullet availability.
YMMV.

landcbeitner · Jul 28, 2011

For an all-in-one cartridge the medium 6.5's are hard to beat (260, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 creedmore). An excellent compromise of ballistics (due to high BC bullet availability), recoil, and barrel life.

I wouldn't expect a well built 6.5 creedmore to group any better than a well built 308, the only real worthwhile advantages over the 308 are ballistics, ballistics, and ballistics.