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Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by RicInOR, Mar 5, 2014.
How to Stay Safe If You're Caught in a Mass Shooting
Good advice or bubblegum
This from the article: "Engaging an assailant should be a last resort unless you're trained to deal with these types of situations (and even then, their first responsibility may be to get the public out of harm's way before dealing with the threat at hand.)"
Haven't studies shown consistently that perps in mass shootings almost always surrender or off themselves at the first sign of resistance?
you throw lead my way, if I am able I am throwin it back. ......Wait for the first responders. Why don't we all just were a bracelet with our weight and body bag size on it.
I thought it was good sound advice.
my first priority is my own ***. i'm not a sheepdog. i'm not going to place myself in harm's way if an exit is easily available.
corner me and i'll fight back, but i'm not going to go seeking conflict.
always have an exit strategy. the best way to avoid being in a gunfight is to not be there to be in a gunfight. exit, stage left.
Mostly good advice meant for people who have never thought about it before. Those of us who have thought about it have our own unlock codes. People like us, hopefully, would not retreat simply to save their own skin if they were in a position to quickly and decisively save lives. Obviously, situational awareness is critical. In most situations, and if I was with any dependents, I would seek a good, defensible position with other people whole could possibly help me--like the article says. However, if you are next to the wacko who opens up, running is stupid and selfish. Seek cover while shooting the wacko and save lives. Ironbar is right, resistance always ends those things sooner.
I was this episode about surviving a Mall Shooting once. I tried to track it down online and came up with this link:
It doesn't play from my current European location, hopefully it does from home. If I remember correctly it does give a fair bit of good information.
Clint Smith says: "If you are not shooting you should be reloading or running."
When the discussion of gun control and mall shootings comes up, they never mention Oregon. We had a mall shooting. The perp killed three. The third one was himself. Why? Because a 21yo young man with a concealed carry permit drew his weapon and pointed it at the perp. He noticed movement behind the perp so he didn't shoot. Just as the perp turned his head and saw the guy drawing down on him. The perp turned the gun on himself and ended the threat himself.
They don't want to mention the positive gun stories because they think everyone will want to be the saviour of the next catastrophe at a mall near you....
I think this is very practical advice. Despite research and recent events showing mass shooters to be suicidal cowards, engaging a mass shooter is still a gunfight. The best you can do in a gunfight is not lose. If you do engage the perp, be prepared to throw your firearm on the ground hard and fast as soon as the police arrive. They are looking for a guy with a gun after all and that situation is the worst time to have a case of mistaken identity.
For me the flight or fight option will all depend on the situation. If I am in a mall and hear a gun shot off in the distance, I am going for the nearest exit. Conversely, if I am at the food court, and some guy steps in the nearest door and opens fire, you bet your sweet bubblegum I am going to start slinging lead back.
I think they've been training (or at least mouthing to) every swinging dick to "respond".. not wait.. yet what happens (think the shipyard in DC etc.).. they all wait for festus and joe swat team while the killing is happening. good times
I was just talking with a friend about this at work the other day. My explanation to him was "it depends". Pretty much like 2wheels said. The other question is whether my kids and/or wife is with me. Any of those permutations drastically changes my course of action.
But if the article makes a few people think about something they had never considered before, then I think that is a win. Good advice for those who had none beforehand.
I think it's good advice for the average person.
However, I'd engage the threat, then move on to helping injured civilians. The best way to "get the public out of harm's way" is to deal with the "threat at hand". I.e., drop him/her, public is now safe, help those that are injured.
I'm confident in my ability to hit my target and keep a level head in a situation like this.
Going off of what 2Wheels said, if I were in a mall and heard a gunshot on the opposite end, I'd move to engage the threat / help injured.
However, that's probably just because I'm a soldier and feel a responsibility to protect the citizenry. It's my duty.
If it was in a mall, I'd probably ninja push my shopping cart into his ankles! operate on dat!
It's easy to be a Monday morning QB when speaking in "what if" terms but it's another story when/if you're actually involved in this sort of thing. There's too many catalysts that could come into play for every scenario to make a rock solid plan in advance.
For me all I know is NOTHING is going to take precedence over the immediate safety of my family. If that means shoving them trough the nearest exit and leading them adequate cover while a shooter is at the other end of the mall; so be it. If it means emptying a magazine inches from my kids' ears while a threat is advancing; so be it. It's all situational. Actively engaging a threat is a serious decision and situation that nobody should take lightly. If you're one of the ones who runs to the sounds of gunshots are you doing it because you want to be a hero or it's your nature? When you round that corner how are you going to tell who's friend and foe? How are you going to distinguish YOURSELF from friend or foe? Are you going to be able to live with yourself after what might happen? It's not a decision to be made lightly and it's unfortunate that more people who choose to carry concealed don't ask themselves that sooner.
I don't like the term "Fight or flight" I think "action/no action" is more fitting. If you can't fight for whatever reason THEN DON'T, your just make it worse. But if you can get your flock out a door and to somewhere safe, you're still a sheepdog and no less important or crucial in an emergent situation.
The best thing you can always do is be constantly aware of your surroundings both physically and socially. Watch doors, watch odd objects, watch people, watch other vehicles, watch everything you can.
I got this in an email a while ago and I'm sure most of you have seen it but there are some very true statements and things to ponder while imagining yourself in an active shooter situation.
U.S. Marine Corps Rules:
(I removed some of the lighter hearted ones)
2. Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.
3. Have a plan.
4. Have a back-up plan, because the first one probably won't work.
5. Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral & diagonal preferred.)
9. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
13. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.
There.. That's my long winded two cents...
Getting out of the direct line of fire by first obtaining cover and then gaining distance from an active shooter is a proven life-saving tactic.
Many people, police included, have made the mistake of standing there and trying to do an "OK Corral" confrontation before gaining cover and have paid the price.
It is conceivable that responding then and there with return fire is the only option; so be it; aim carefully and consider dropping to a kneeling position to reduce your exposed surfaces and get out of the line of fire long enough to score effective hits. Attackers don't expect their targets to move out of the way and it can be the split-second edge you need. Also, shooting upward will direct your fire in a way that lessens the likelihood of hitting people behind the shooter.
You can never miss fast enough. 7 misses in 3 seconds will never equal one head shot achieved in the same time. It may be the longest several seconds of your life, seemingly taking forever.
As observed above, each situation will present different options, some worse than others, so there is no one answer to everything, but surviving the first 10 seconds should be the first priority, and if fighting back is your best option- rather than getting the heck out and then covering the exit behind you to ambush the shooter, then if possible, do it from a position of stability and cover.
I think it's a good thought-provoking article.