How to "Not Comply?"

[Heywood]

Now that is good observations and suggestions

Also if anyone can get 10,000 (a small number actually) gun owners to march on Salem and make a statement that they nullify the bill, I would be in the front line of that one. The folks in Conn did it. Not sure but I think it is still in limbo because they stood their ground. Correct me if anyone has facts otherwise.

Now it seems you are getting my point. See post number 26. If enough people openly defy this law they will have to reform it the same way they "reform" everything else liberals do not like I.e. Immigration, bankruptcy, foreclosures, medical priorities, college loans and many other issues the left chooses to ignore. It will not help to have some people hiding while others make a stand. It will not work if we do not do it out in the OPEN.

 

[Deebow]

If you purchase a gun from an FFL after 941 takes effect, then you don't have much choice but to abide by the "law" if you choose to sell it.

However, like others have said, if you owned the gun prior to 941 passing and then try to sell it, there is no evidence short of a third-party or a surveillance camera that can prove you broke the law. There's no need to unnecessarily add your pre-941 firearms to the registry.

How about "Yeah, I traded that on a hunting trip in Idaho?"

 

[Deebow]

What are the laws concerning the sale of firearms from one private party of a state to another private party of the same state, while physically in a different state with less restrictive gun laws?

Where does federal law stand on this, and which state's laws apply to the sale?

I assume that there is a federal law against this, but I have never read about it.

How would they know you did this? I don't plan on broadcasting anything about where I got it. And I would imagine that just like every other law, the penalties and enforcement mechanisms for it ends at the border of that state.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

A gun you purchased after 941 with transfer documentation, that ends up years later in someone else's hands with no paper trail could be legally explained away if you say you gave it to a relative legally and he moved with it to Idaho and probably later traded it.
A simple I don't know should be sufficient, the burden of proof would be on Law Enforcement.
Might be a good Idea to have your story straight though. When this thing gets rolling NY or CA style I'd say the burden of proof is gonna be on you!

 

[Deebow]

This is pretty simple in answering this question; Two people meet, they exchange funds and product and move on about their separate ways. Trading or selling with people you know helps.

But as I watch these threads, it seems that with few exceptions, that many here are worried that the State Police, County Sheriff, and local PD have unlimited budgets and loads of time on their hands to stake out every public space, shooting range, or parking lot in order to catch someone handing another someone a gun or lurk around on NWF waiting to try to find some unsuspecting soul to entice into committing a Class A Misdemeanor.

Fellas, I have worked in this community. I promise, there is not a countdown clock on the wall of every police station counting down the days until this law becomes effective. The police don't have the time, energy or resources to chase down a guy to fill up the court docket so that a lawyer can plea bargain the charge down to something much less life changing and wallet emptying. The DA isn't going to be clearing his desk of all the other things he is doing to set out another in-basket for the police to pile work in.

They are out chasing down the rising tide of gang bangers, illegal alien meth labs, and child molesters that I PROMISE YOU that they would rather put in prison than some guy with a CCW license who wants to trade his old Glock for a cheap hunting rifle.

The Grant County sheriff said as much during his testimony.

Sounds to me like driving to Grant County to do my transfers would be an awesome idea.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Nobody's worried about the trade so much as what happens down the road when your post 941 gun you traded becomes evidence in a Crime or.......
The gun you got in trade is confiscated from you when you get involved in an ugly situation. Then they look up the serial numbers and then ask you why no transfer documents

 

[Deebow]

Nobody's worried about the trade so much as what happens down the road when your post 941 gun you traded becomes evidence in a Crime or.......
The gun you got in trade is confiscated from you when you get involved in an ugly situation. Then they look up the serial numbers and then ask you why no transfer documents

Why is everyone so concerned about whether or not the gun you sold or traded was used in a crime? Something I might sell might be used for evil purposes, but law or no law, how on Earth could I prevent that even if I did get a background check done on the buyer?

This is from ORS 131.125 and for the relevant info they are talking about, you can go here: http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/131.125

Except as provided in subsection (8) of this section or as otherwise expressly provided by law, prosecutions for other offenses must be commenced within the following periods of limitations after their commission:

(a) For any other felony, three years.

(b) For any misdemeanor, two years.

(c) For a violation, six months.

Sounds to me like if you sell a gun to someone and then after giving it to their son as a graduation gift, it gets stolen by one of that son's JO buddies, who gives it to another worse buddy who does a drive by on someone 5 years from now, you are not on the hook because they missed their chance.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Why is everyone so concerned about whether or not the gun you sold or traded was used in a crime? Something I might sell might be used for evil purposes, but law or no law, how on Earth could I prevent that even if I did get a background check done on the buyer?

This is from ORS 131.125 and for the relevant info they are talking about, you can go here: http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/131.125

Except as provided in subsection (8) of this section or as otherwise expressly provided by law, prosecutions for other offenses must be commenced within the following periods of limitations after their commission:

(a) For any other felony, three years.

(b) For any misdemeanor, two years.

(c) For a violation, six months.

Sounds to me like if you sell a gun to someone and then after giving it to their son as a graduation gift, it gets stolen by one of that son's JO buddies, who gives it to another worse buddy who does a drive by on someone 5 years from now, you are not on the hook because they missed their chance.

I'd prefer any gun, car, axe or length of rope not to be used in a crime after I sell it but I'm not worried about it. I'm not selling to an obvious criminal.
The only reason people are mentioning the traded gun being used in a crime is that's when the Police get a hold of it and start tracing it.

That's when the possibility of breaking 941 and getting punished for it becomes an issue for you.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I think I'm just understanding you DeeBow.
You're saying there might be a statute of limitations on prosecuting illegal gun transfers of two years?

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Anybody else have an opinion on the statute of limitations for transferring a gun minus an FFL?

Even if they couldn't get you for violating the Oregon Firearms Safety Act, I'd bet a Civil Lawsuit will hang over the heads of any one who transfers without paperwork and then the gun is used in a crime and gets traced back to you.

 

[python287]

OK so when does 941 take effect ?

 

[bakersman345]

Just be like a common criminal and file off the serial number and sell to gang bangers, and meth heads. Ta-da no comply. Crime is crime if you sell to a murderous thug, or a cpl holder its the same. Flood the streets with illegal guns and watch the blood flow. Sometimes bad things happen for a good society to prevail.

This is to be taken Tongue in cheek. I am not serious. I live under I-594. I comply. Its pretty fast to do a bgc in WA, because we don't have a a state check where you get delayed for a parking ticket unlike you Oregon guys.

the the guy that said A.b.c thing is a good one. Anything that doesn't have paper before 941 should stay that way.

There is a good chance the 4473's will end up with "water damage" from gun shops anyway.

 

[Mongo1]

941 goes into affect 90 days after it was signed into law. Approx 55 more days.
I have 2 Saiga's to sell with the background check and transfer or there will be no sale. My reason: I bought them both from an FFL with the background check and transfer to me. I am the owner of record. My concern: I sell to a responsible person but the gun is stolen. The gun is found at a crime scene. The police check records, find I am the owner of record and send a swat team to my home in the middle of the night.
I posted this concern before and some bubblegum posted " it doesn't work like that Skippy". Well it could very well happen just like that. I am not willing to take the chance. I would rather keep them. Everyone do as you wish. I plan to obey the law. I am retired, never worked in law enforcement.

 

[Mongo1]

I did not post " some bubblegum"

 

[python287]

941 goes into affect 90 days after it was signed into law. Approx 55 more days.
I have 2 Saiga's to sell with the background check and transfer or there will be no sale. My reason: I bought them both from an FFL with the background check and transfer to me. I am the owner of record. My concern: I sell to a responsible person but the gun is stolen. The gun is found at a crime scene. The police check records, find I am the owner of record and send a swat team to my home in the middle of the night.
I posted this concern before and some bubblegum posted " it doesn't work like that Skippy". Well it could very well happen just like that. I am not willing to take the chance. I would rather keep them. Everyone do as you wish. I plan to obey the law. I am retired, never worked in law enforcement.

First of all the Swat Team would not visit you - The Police would have to contact the ATF to see which dealer your firearm was sent to - they would then contact the last dealer and determine who purchased the weapon - after that then they would research your name to see if you have a criminal record - they would not just send the SWAT Team to your house - the Police in this State don't operate like that.

 

[Mongo1]

You my be right. I don't know for sure. So I am not selling to anyone without background/transfer.
Everyone else can do as they please. I'm not criticizing those that choose to not comply. Good luck with that.
I'm amazed that the emergency aspect of the law was not challenged. There was no emergency. That stipulation was used to prevent this law from being put on a ballot for the voters. This will make it difficult to reverse this law.

 

[FireArm]

Arent most trusts used for NFA items, why would someone want a trust for legal to own firearms???

 

[FireArm]

Priced good mills and lathes lately? Think machining is a an easy skill to learn? Machining a functioning firearm would definitely be an 'advanced' operation.

then get a press, and jig and start bending blank ak47 receivers, Firearms are made around the world by huge factories low skilled workers and very few real gunsmiths actually mass build firearms. Once you make one "Successfully" on a lathe and Mill you will be fine making more of the same.

 

[FireArm]

A gun you purchased after 941 with transfer documentation, that ends up years later in someone else's hands with no paper trail could be legally explained away if you say you gave it to a relative legally and he moved with it to Idaho and probably later traded it.
A simple I don't know should be sufficient, the burden of proof would be on Law Enforcement.
Might be a good Idea to have your story straight though. When this thing gets rolling NY or CA style I'd say the burden of proof is gonna be on you!

I like the way you think Sir.
LEO and feds dont have to follow the law... Seems legit to me Cause we know all cops and federal agents are not going to break laws...

 

[etrain16]

I'm amazed that the emergency aspect of the law was not challenged. There was no emergency. That stipulation was used to prevent this law from being put on a ballot for the voters. This will make it difficult to reverse this law.

What makes you think it wasn't challenged? We've been discussing the Emergency Clause for months here on the forum. There must be dozens of threads that have been brought up on SB941 and every single one mentioned the emergency clause. Many of us have challenged it with our lawmakers on the phone, via email and in person. People have written to newspapers and other news agencies about it. Oregon Firearms Federation attacked that provision. And in the public testimonies, it was brought up over and over again.

Believe me, it was challenged, very strongly. But all that was ignored by politicians with tremendous out-of-state support and money.