How to get rifle home? TX to OR

[tionico]

et

Also, how does this differ from one of us driving to a WA gun shop and buying a rifle? Can't we just drive it back home to Oregon?

If you buy from FFL in another state, BGC is part of the sale per FedGov. Now its legally yours, put it in the car and drive it home

OP had question about bringing frrom Texas..... NOT buying from FFL but being gifted from his Father. That is not a transfer that triggers an FFL check. Gifts and inheritances done face to face like that are exempt BGC.

 

[tionico]

FEDEX it to yourself. That is perfectly legal!

FedEx do not ship long guns, Last I knew USPS do, but why not simply take them as checked luggage, declared, in locked hard sided case?

 

[wired]

That is not a transfer that triggers an FFL check. Gifts and inheritances done face to face like that are exempt BGC.

If he was a resident of TX that would be the case. He is not a resident of TX. He is a resident of Oregon. There is no exception for family transfers at the federal level and never ( since 1968 ) has been. What you are telling him to do would be a federal felony. I dont care if he does it either but he, and really anyone contemplating doing something like this, needs to be aware that it is illegal at the federal lever to transfer guns directly to people living in other states even if they are related . Then they can make the decision whether they want to commit a felony with all the facts in front of them.

 

[Arv56]

It is freaking ridiculous we have to ask this question these days, not long ago just case it and check it through baggage and there ya go.

Brutus Out

You can check in a gun on a plane. Just has to be locked in a hard case (does NOT need to be TSA approved locks), and not loaded. You should declare the gun when checking baggage, and be prepared to unlock the case for the TSA to inspect before they accept it. After it is checked in, they shouldn't be opening the case again. The problem would be with Oregon state law. If you buy out of state, they may want you to ship to an FFL like you would if you bought online.

 

[Arv56]

FedEx do not ship long guns, Last I knew USPS do, but why not simply take them as checked luggage, declared, in locked hard sided case?

UPS will ship guns.

 

[ccdunc]

I have a friend who plans on buying and/or be gifted a rifle or two while visiting his father in TX.
What's the best legal way to get them back to Oregon? He is flying down and back for the visit.

-Matthew

Call the airline regarding their procedures. Generally it is just fine to check appropriately boxed and secured guns. All ammo separately. Check with Customer Service, I think you'll be surprised.

 

[snobirdvet]

Gonzales, Four yrs ago I sent my 870 pump shotgun in a locking hard case on SW air baggage on my flight to Tucson. Some hassle as they require you to open the hard case before x ray at PDX and they inspect it, I left the action open , no ammo. It does not go down the baggage shutes on arrival ! And I waited 45 minutes at the baggage claim office as they hand transport it.

Last year I sent the gun back to Washington, (Before the new law passed) disassembled and packaged in a strong cardboard box on US post Office Priority Mail $ 50, sent it to my buddys house , a "responsible person " has to receive it. What a laugh, his 12 yr old daughter signed for it.

Dont know if laws have changed, check the US post office website, long guns are OK, no handguns, air baggage is a pain.

snobirdvet

 

[mikemenzie]

If he was a resident of TX that would be the case. He is not a resident of TX. He is a resident of Oregon. There is no exception for family transfers at the federal level and never ( since 1968 ) has been. What you are telling him to do would be a federal felony. I dont care if he does it either but he, and really anyone contemplating doing something like this, needs to be aware that it is illegal at the federal lever to transfer guns directly to people living in other states even if they are related . Then they can make the decision whether they want to commit a felony with all the facts in front of them.

@wired - You mention a few times that federal law states absolutely no way to transfer a firearm from a resident of one state to a resident of another state as a gift, regardless of familial status, etc. I hope I didn't just miss a reference to specific law, but if I didn't, I wondered if you could link to the specific law or laws that state this. My understanding, given by LEOs when questioned (in Arizona, California, Oregon, and Idaho), was that if gifting is legal in the state of the giver, and is also legal in the state of the receiver, then it is legal. In this case, the gifter could travel with his legal firearm to the state of the receiver, and gift it. Or the receiver could travel to the state of the gifter, receive the gift, and then travel home with his new legally owned firearm.

Side note, I travelled about one year ago from Portland to Phoenix - Delta Airlines, I believe - with...13 firearms? Both handguns and long guns. No ammo. I used a locking storage trunk made for the back of a truck that happened to be the size of a checked bag. I broke down the long guns to make them fit, and put the handguns in a separate storage case within the larger case. I locked the case and brought it to the special baggage checking station for the airline. Guy dusted it for bomb residue or some such thing, x-rayed it, and sent me on my way. I picked it up at the regular baggage carousel in Phoenix.

 

[mikemenzie]

(by the way, sorry for the response to an OOOOOLD thread. Just happened across it randomly and figured I'd throw a reply up.)

 

[wired]

I know its an old thread but I really don't see why that is an issue. Conversations go old and then get brought up again. No harm in that.
In any case nope. The LEO's you talked to were grossly misinformed as they often are with firearms regulations. There is no provision for buying , gifting etc ANY firearm interstate between non FFL's. Pistol, rifle, shotgun whatever. Can't do it. ( Almost ) The only exception is you maintain residences in 2 states. That doesnt mean owning property in another state either. You have to actually live there for a portion of the year and the transaction has to be while living there. I know. It sucks. 18 U.S.C § 922 (a)(3). The only other real exception being a lawful bequest. If your uncle dies and names you in the will to receive a firearm you can do it. If your uncle dies and the firearm goes to your aunt who gives it to you because your uncle would have wanted you to own it then its not OK. Its got to go through an FFL holder on the receiving side.

In one sense the LEO's you spoke to were correct in the sense that you would not be breaking state law with an interstate transfer. Federal law is something completely different. Remember 99% of enforcement is at the state level.

 

[Nocaster]

When I was moving here from Illinois and flying back and forth a lot, i tried shipping to myself, but none of the carriers (fedex, ups, dhl) would accept it unless it was going to an FFL.

Flying with guns is easy peasy, done it lots of times.

 

[Nocaster]

UPS will ship guns.

I have shipped long guns through FedEx, and did declare what I was shipping.

 

[mikemenzie]

I know its an old thread but I really don't see why that is an issue. Conversations go old and then get brought up again. No harm in that.
In any case nope. The LEO's you talked to were grossly misinformed as they often are with firearms regulations. There is no provision for buying , gifting etc ANY firearm interstate between non FFL's. Pistol, rifle, shotgun whatever. Can't do it. ( Almost ) The only exception is you maintain residences in 2 states. That doesnt mean owning property in another state either. You have to actually live there for a portion of the year and the transaction has to be while living there. I know. It sucks. 18 U.S.C § 922 (a)(3). The only other real exception being a lawful bequest. If your uncle dies and names you in the will to receive a firearm you can do it. If your uncle dies and the firearm goes to your aunt who gives it to you because your uncle would have wanted you to own it then its not OK. Its got to go through an FFL holder on the receiving side.

In one sense the LEO's you spoke to were correct in the sense that you would not be breaking state law with an interstate transfer. Federal law is something completely different. Remember 99% of enforcement is at the state level.

How does that federal work out with washington state law?
RCW 9.41.122 - it IS permitted to purchase long guns out of state and transport them home to washington, provided background checks and/OR ffl transfers are conducted in whatever manner they are required in the state that the transfer is taking place - if i understand correctly, setting aside federal, if a Washington resident were to travel to a place without background or ffl requirements for private party transfer...then washington says A-OK, as long as it's not a pistol.

What think you, Wired buddy?

 

[wired]

You are not beholden to Washington State laws for things you do outside Washington. You can buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL dealer ( or C&R ) outside the state and bring it back into Washington and not be in violation of Washington state law. You'd be breaking Federal law if you acquired it from a non licensee so even though you stiffed a Washington dealer you still had to go through a dealer in another state and do the BG check thing. You havent really accomplished anything. The exception being C&R . You couldnt have a C&R eligible firearm sent into the state any more but you wouldnt be breaking Federal law by traveling into a state ( Not Oregon ) that allows C&R Transfers with a BGC and purchasing ANY Title 1 firearm and then bringing it back into Washington . Washington law doesnt specifically address the issue of purchasing a C&R eligible firearm in another state without a BGC.

 

[mikemenzie]

Interesting. So, even though arizona law says no bgc or ffl necessary for private party, and washington says 'buy a lon gun anywhere and truck it home, followin' the bgc and ffl laws of that state - which arizona has none, so no worries, hombre' (i paraphrase), federal law says 'noooooope, washington done did it wrong, can't do that, even if washington says ya can'.

So it's like that marijuana being "legal" in some states, but illegal, federally, thing? I have always understood how a state can make more stringent laws. Don't like it, but it makes sense. But for Fed to say NO and state to say OKIE DOKIE, when Fed can still hop in and bust a fella...makes no sense to me...

So - i am all sorts of turned around now on this. According to what you're helping me understand, gifting and private party sales are not allowed to be done out of state and brought back into state. But purchasing from an FFL in another state (washington doesn't require it be a neighboring state, from what i can gather) and driving it home OR having it shipped to a home FFL is ok? Not speaking of accomplishing avoiding a bgc - moreso just because you can find good deals on firearms while travelling, sometimes.

With C&R - i thought Fed required a C&R license, if one wanted to purchase and sell without ffl and such? Not speaking of black powder - those aren't firearms - but old military surplus firearms, mosins, etc., can be purchased, if i understand arightly by Fed law, if one has a C&R license.
And since i don't have a C&R license, so i have to get bgc and go through ffl on those like any other firearm, no?

Man, oh, man...really and truly wouldn't even mind laws that abridge my rights, sometimes, if they could just make them easier to understand....

 

[wired]

The neighboring state thing dropped off the radar a long time ago. You can buy a long gun in any state that allows out of state residents to buy a firearm. Not all do. Good example being the agreement that Washington and Oregon among others have with California. Californians are not allowed to purchase a long-arm in WA or OR and other states that have the same agreement.

The feds have chosen not to enforce SOME Marijuana laws in respect to states laws. The feds have not chosen to not enforce federal gun laws. What your state says you can do inside your state flies out the window when you start dealing with actual interstate commerce such as going to a different state and buying a gun. That is 100% in the feds jurisdiction.

If you have a C&R license things get a little different. It is federally issued but you still have to comply with state laws. If you are buying a C&R eligible gun in a state that requires BGC and does not have an exemption for C&R holders then you will have to do the BGC shuffle if you buy a C&R gun in that state. Black powder and antique guns dont count as firearms to the feds but they may be firearms according to your state. Some Northeastern states consider them as title 1 firearms.

I know no one likes to hear this stuff and everyone wants to do whatever they want to do and the law is BS etc. Yep. I still feel its always best to know the facts before putting yourself or someone else in the position of making a risk to benefit decision. Is it worth the possible yet unlikely risk of federal imprisonment to go to a different state to pick up some guns without paperwork? For many people the likelihood of getting caught being nil makes it a worthwhile endeavor. For others maybe not but knowing what the law and penalties are part of the planning process.

 

[Brutus57]

Three, because if you shake it more than three times, your playing with it.

Ray

Yes, that is my understanding of the rule of thumb re:shaking.

Brutus Out

 

[Garg]

It has already been answered a dozen times, but I will just chime in and say "Hard locked case, checked into baggage, and declared."
Simple.

edit: and no ammo in the case(s)

 

[mikemenzie]

The neighboring state thing dropped off the radar a long time ago. You can buy a long gun in any state that allows out of state residents to buy a firearm. Not all do. Good example being the agreement that Washington and Oregon among others have with California. Californians are not allowed to purchase a long-arm in WA or OR and other states that have the same agreement.

The feds have chosen not to enforce SOME Marijuana laws in respect to states laws. The feds have not chosen to not enforce federal gun laws. What your state says you can do inside your state flies out the window when you start dealing with actual interstate commerce such as going to a different state and buying a gun. That is 100% in the feds jurisdiction.

If you have a C&R license things get a little different. It is federally issued but you still have to comply with state laws. If you are buying a C&R eligible gun in a state that requires BGC and does not have an exemption for C&R holders then you will have to do the BGC shuffle if you buy a C&R gun in that state. Black powder and antique guns dont count as firearms to the feds but they may be firearms according to your state. Some Northeastern states consider them as title 1 firearms.

I know no one likes to hear this stuff and everyone wants to do whatever they want to do and the law is BS etc. Yep. I still feel its always best to know the facts before putting yourself or someone else in the position of making a risk to benefit decision. Is it worth the possible yet unlikely risk of federal imprisonment to go to a different state to pick up some guns without paperwork? For many people the likelihood of getting caught being nil makes it a worthwhile endeavor. For others maybe not but knowing what the law and penalties are part of the planning process.

Much appreciated, bud. I have a new understanding of things.

 

[rawen2]

This is a bit off topic from the OP's original question but there has been some incorrect info in this thread regarding locks and ammo while transporting firearms on airlines within the US.

I've flown a number of times with a handgun in my checked luggage. Never had a problem. I've never flown with a long gun but the rules are the same as for a handgun.

At the check-in desk ask for a firearm declaration form. Basically it just says that the firearm is unloaded and you have to sign it.
Gun has to be in a hard-sided locked case.
Yes, you can carry ammo in the same locked case as the unloaded firearm. Up to 11 lbs. including the weight of the packaging. It can't be loose - needs to be in packaging designed for ammo. I sometimes buy ammo in bulk and divide it up into zip-lock baggies for easy transport to the range. That won't work for flying. TSA says ammo can also be transported in the magazine or clip (which is not inserted into the gun obviously) but some airlines don't allow that. Easiest to just carry it in the box it was purchased in.
No, you do not use a TSA lock on the gun case. It has to be a lock that only you have the key or combo to.
Bottom line - read the TSA requirements and requirements of the airline(s) you'll be traveling on:

TSA: Transporting Firearms and Ammunition
American: Firearms and ammunition − Baggage − American Airlines
United: Traveling with Sports Equipment | United Airlines
Delta: Special Items | Baggage : Delta Air Lines
Southwest: Special Luggage | Southwest Airlines