JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Messages
3,035
Reactions
6,452



WASHINGTON, D.C.-(Ammoland.com)- According to an ATF document leaked to AmmoLand News, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) can legally obtain information from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) for civil or criminal enforcement.



The monitoring of NICS isn't for prohibited people. It is for monitoring people that are not prohibited from buying a firearm, but the ATF suspects MIGHT be committing a crime in the future. Someone buying too many guns in the ATF's or FBI's eyes could be placed on the list. The person being monitored will NOT be notified of the surveillance. The object of the monitoring is to "catch people who are committing straw purchases or similar crimes."



According to 28CFR 25.9, NICS keeps some records from a transaction for ten years. This information includes the date/time of the sale and the FFL information. The FBI destroys personal information from those still open requests (no denied/approved) within 90 days. Our sources inside the FBI report the data is deleted on day 88. If the sale is approved, the information will be destroyed within 24 hours of the NICS request being returned. The FBI will keep the records of a denied sale forever. The ATF is notified of every denied sale, and those records are kept in the ATF NICS Referral (ANR) database for the ATF to follow up.



The ATF employee that initiates a NICS Audit Log Request must list all legal violations they suspect the target is committing. They also must provide "detailed information about why" the suspect is under investigation. Even though the form is not an affidavit, the ATF employee must write it like they are writing an affidavit. The requestor must email the form to the ATF NICS Representative.


The ATF NICS Representative will review the request and decide to approve or deny the monitoring of NICS information on the target. They will then forward the information to the NICS Section Liaison Specialist, whose only job is to forward the request to the NICS Legal Analysis Team (LAT) for review.


The LAT will approve the request and set up the monitoring/surveillance on the citizen.


The document says the requestor can be a "Special Agent, Industry Operations Investigator (IOI), Intelligence Research Specialist, Intelligence Analyst, etc." The NICS monitoring is only supposed to be used for civil or criminal enforcement. IOIs are strictly prohibited from doing either enforcement activity. They are not on the law enforcement side of the ATF. They are on the industry side of the agency. If an IOI suspects a criminal or civil violation, the investigator is supposed to fill out a "Suspicious Activities Report."


The IOI will then notify the ATF's Gun Crime Intelligence Center or state or local law enforcement. The IOI does not investigate crimes. It is unclear why they would need NICS monitoring capabilities as that falls outside anything that they would need to complete their job. The ATF is strictly prohibited from using the annual inspection as a cover for a criminal or civil investigation.


The job of the IOIs is to make sure all the FFL's paperwork is in order and to answer any questions they may have for the ATF. The IOIs being listed as an authorized requestor group could signify that some in the ATF do not realize that the ATF is made up of a regulatory side and a law enforcement division. It also could be an oversight of the person writing the document.


Gun Owners of America has been given the document and is filing a freedom of information act (FOIA) to get more information about those being monitored by the ATF through NICS.
 
Holy Smokes Batman! I'm sc...er... out of luck! Today I drove 26 mph in a 25 zone (I was actually pulled over in a tiny little town one night for that! The cop goes "YOU WERE DOING 26 in a 25 zone!" My "Um... OK?" nearly got me shot! Yes he pulled a gun on me!), coughed and spit on the sidewalk, maybe jaywalked (not sure, walked across the road to get mail, no crosswalks or sidewalks here), and I'm sure a sharp lawyer will come up with a dozen other things.
 
What would happen if every gun purchaser in the USA did a FOIA request? Just wondering ...
Easy, they'd charge (at least) $200 for the request and it'd take 10+ months for them to fulfill it. You'll be wondering what the eff took so long while they laugh their way to the bank.
 
We've always known there was "a list" and I suspect there has been one for as long as any paperwork has been filled out by the buyer and that has been shared with and stored by the ATF, definitely as long as computer and internet data sharing has been a thing. I will never believe an entity of government to tell the public the entire truth.

The comment about "buying many guns in a short amount of time can flag someone as likely committing a crime"

I lit that thing up like a Christmas tree before 1639 went into effect. They can kiss my hairy butt.
 
Easy, they'd charge (at least) $200 for the request and it'd take 10+ months for them to fulfill it. You'll be wondering what the eff took so long while they laugh their way to the bank.
Thought the $200 and a 10 month wait was just for a Form 4. Didn't realize it was a multi agency standard.
 
Thought the $200 and a 10 month wait was just for a Form 4. Didn't realize it was a multi agency standard.

I mean, I was using the Form 4 experience to joke about it. But, in reality, FOIA Requests can take eons and cost much, much more.

Search and review fees can range from $8 to $45 per hour, and duplication fees are usually $0.10 to $0.35 per page.

The gov said you had the freedom to request information...then they tacked on having to pay for a printer peon to make copies and a cost per page. Government employees aren't known for their ability to get things done quickly.

Source for above quote: https://unredacted.com/2010/01/27/foia-tip-10-can-they-charge-me-for-my-request-part-i-fee-category/
 
USPS spying on social media, ATF spying on people's firearm purchases.

You sure we are not in commie China?
USPS scans and records every piece of mail you get (outside envelope). So it would be very easy to know every person in the US who is associated with a second amendment organization.
You can sign up and see your database of mail you have received.
https://informeddelivery.usps.com/box/pages/intro/start.action

I'm sure the USPS isnt the only alphabet agency with this information in their database
 

Upcoming Events

Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA
Klamath Falls gun show
Klamath Falls, OR
Oregon Arms Collectors April 2024 Gun Show
Portland, OR
Albany Gun Show
Albany, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top