How safe is shooting into trees?

[PaulB47]

A pretty traditional past time is squirrel hunting with a .22 rifle. Yet I wonder if it doesn't violate Cooper's 4th rule. So I'd like to hear your opinion on .22LR and .17HMR and .17HM2 (is that still available?) and even air rifle pellets or shotgun with bird shot for this, and for other such factors as the angle from the vertical (is vertical shooting safer than a lower angle or horizontal shooting?). How close do neighbors' homes have to be before you decide not to shoot - assuming you decide based on safety rather than noise?

One day I walked into my barn (up in a little valley of the Coast range) and found a spent .30 caliber bullet lying on the floor...

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[v0lcom13sn0w]

.22 i wont shoot above a solid earth backstop. shotgun it wont hurt anything if you shoot up and the pellets rain down unless of course someones looking into the sky without eye protection.

 

[ditchtiger]

How close do neighbors' homes have to be before you decide not to shoot -

In the mid west 200 yards was the limit. But to be polite I kept it farther than that.

 

[that guy]

 

[Koda]

in a group I sometimes hunt with when doing drives the drivers will push deer into a shooter on a stand. The rule we go over each and every time is nobody takes a shot into the trees there must be some backstop. We've let deer slip between us because of this. This applies regardless of public lands or private.... and any type of hunting, or caliber, or projectile.

My take, now a deer is a pretty big target and you can often frame them against even a small terrain feature or even a large tree if your good enough or he sits there still enough... You can do the same with a squirrel.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

if you can take your time to stalk an animal ... you can also try to put a backstop of some sort behind your animal before you take a shot.
I would only shoot if there is a tree directly behind the critter.
Andy

 

[The Heretic]

I am surrounded by trees, but there are enough gaps between them (especially now after I thinned) that I do not just blindly shoot in my woods just on the off chance that a tree will stop the bullets. Which is why I rarely shoot on my property as I don't have a safe direction to shoot in where the distance is more than a couple dozen yards, and even then I am really careful - mostly I shoot towards *my* house (with a backstop).

My neighbors do tromp around in the woods some here - usually not mine though. Their dogs - which have doubled in number in the last couple of months, have no concept of other people's property and often roam around mine.

Shooting up into trees with a .22 RF - in some parts of my woods I could do that - but I don't. Generally bullets going up and coming back down purely from gravity are not very dangerous, but some people do sometimes get hurt and sometimes killed - depends on the angle.

 

[PaulB47]

I can see maneuvering around until there is a backstop behind the squirrel, but I can't see the squirrel just sitting there and putting up with that.

I guess the safety standards have changed over the years. That old American past time of squirrel hunting is probably mostly gone.

I'm still wondering about .17 HMR. A 17gr bullet ain't much. How much does a birdshot pellet weigh anyway?

 

[that guy]

Keep in mind the 17 grain bullet has better aerodynamics and is moving 3-4 times as fast. Plenty dangerous.

 

[Koda]

I can see maneuvering around until there is a backstop behind the squirrel, but I can't see the squirrel just sitting there and putting up with that.

I guess the safety standards have changed over the years. That old American past time of squirrel hunting is probably mostly gone.

I'm still wondering about .17 HMR. A 17gr bullet ain't much. How much does a birdshot pellet weigh anyway?

Whats changed over the years is population growth. Used to be that you could drive clear out to BFE in the woods and have the place to yourself. Not so much anymore.

Regarding birdshot, im not certain there is too much of a risk shooting that into trees.... ?

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Whats changed over the years is population growth. Used to be that you could drive clear out to BFE in the woods and have the place to yourself. Not so much anymore.

Regarding birdshot, im not certain there is too much of a risk shooting that into trees.... ?

honestly,if you're shooting birdshot into the trees just make sure to know in which direction the shot will go after the trees. you should be fine. without question i wouldnt shoot a 22 up into a tree. that bullet goes a long way.

 

[oknow]

If you shoot birdshot, shoot straight up so you can catch the pellets.

 

[WillNotComply]

Anecdotal, but somewhat applies here. Years ago a family came home to find dad dead in the yard. Looked like he had a heart attack while on the roof working on his honey-do list. Autopsy found a small entry wound on his shoulder close to his neck.
Turned out that there were two kids about 2-3 miles away goofing around with a .22 firing it into the air. They found the gun thrown in the swamp nearby. I can not recall how they connected the kids...
This was in suburban NJ, had to be 45-50 years ago.

Another time the boys and I were hunting doves in the corn. After a few volleys we heard some shouting. Turns out Mom was working in the garden and being "rained" on. Momma wasn't happy!

 

[Flopsweat]

The maximum range for .22LR is usually listed somewhere between 1 and 1.5 miles. If you have an expectation of people being closer than that, you shouldn't be shooting without a backstop. Maybe even give yourself an extra half mile to allow for wind, elevation or some other factor. There was a story a few years ago in Washington about a man who was sitting in his back yard when he felt a sharp sting and then noticed that his nose was bleeding. He'd been shot with a .22 and the bullet had passed through his nose from one side to the other. The police later caught some geniuses who had been shooting trap with a .22 rifle about a mile away. If you can reach someone with a round, you can probably hurt them with it. Now, if you were to use a 12 gauge, I recall that #7 1/2 birdshot typically cannot reach more than 350 yards, even with a "flyer". A flyer is an individual pellet that carries significantly further than the shot cloud. There is also snake shot for .22 and while I have no idea what the maximum range is on it, I'm sure it's pretty short. I also have no idea whether it would take a squirrel humanely at the distances you're considering. Might be worth looking into though.

Please bear in mind that these are just numbers that I remember (or think that I remember). If you still plan to shoot, please do look these up rather than depending on my memory.

 

[DunRanull]

A .410 with #7 1/2 shot should do it for squirrels without endangering the local populace. I still have my old .22 Mossberg but rarely use it. .22 snakeshot probably won't work very well on small tree-dwelling rodents.
Maybe if you can find them- standard velocity .22 shorts...

 

[mkwerx]

I would think that a peppy pellet gun would take a squirrel with a well placed shot - I've killed plenty of rats (not the tree variety) and gophers with them from Daisy and Crossman pump guns, and over penetrating or hitting the neighbor's house a quarter mile away wasn't a concern.

I'm surprised that squirrel hunting hasn't been regulated out of practical existence because of the Forestry Dept rules about shooting trees - a big no no in most states including Oregon. Hell that may be how they try to outlaw all hunting in the woods - all those bullets going into the trees, gotta think of the treeeees (I'm not trying to give them any ideas)

 

[cigars]

I would think that a peppy pellet gun would take a squirrel with a well placed shot - I've killed plenty of rats (not the tree variety) and gophers with them from Daisy and Crossman pump guns, and over penetrating or hitting the neighbor's house a quarter mile away wasn't a concern.

I'm surprised that squirrel hunting hasn't been regulated out of practical existence because of the Forestry Dept rules about shooting trees - a big no no in most states including Oregon. Hell that may be how they try to outlaw all hunting in the woods - all those bullets going into the trees, gotta think of the treeeees (I'm not trying to give them any ideas)

Gamo makes some wicked air rifles for grown ups. They will easily and silently take out squirrel and other small game. Even though they are pneumatic, like taking a shot with anything, always know what your eventual back stop will be. Regret will follow you the rest of your life.

 

[PaulB47]

My air rifle is just the ordinary RWS gun that is so common. The pellets I am using are .177 cal 9.3 grain flat nose, that hit a squirrel pretty hard. This is about the same weight as BB shot, and probably a worse BC.

For the .17 HMR I was able to find a table showing the bullet drops 17 feet at 500 yards.

17 HMR Ballistics Chart & Drop Table GunData.org

Of course if you shot it up at a 45 degree angle, by the time it got out to 500 yards it would be traveling sideways. Terminal velocity probably isn't going to be very much.