How often do self-defenders empty their mag?

[Certaindeaf]

Aren't cops taught to empty the mag?

I watched the video and I don't believe the officer did anything wrong. With the call they received and the perceived threat of the suspect at close proximity, his actions should be within the law.

21ft. He was running toward them then kinda ran by. How fast could he have turned and closed that vary small gap between them?
Pretty darn fast.
With the suspect in his state of mind, what would happen if he was running towards other people?
LEOs have a duty to protect themselves, and the protect the public.

I'm not losing any sleep because a violent person acted stupid and aggressive towards police was shot and killed.


Now the other shooting of the guy and his mom. I didn't get the full details, but it doesn't look good.

I think that's the thing now. People/lawyers saying/accusing that that's all coppers know.. have been trained to do. which is quite laughable

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Now the other shooting of the guy and his mom. I didn't get the full details, but it doesn't look good.

I think that one was pass through shot to a deserving soul. One round was fired.

 

[Lars]

Shoot until the threat is eliminated. Usually means until bad guy hits the ground. Under stress you can usually get most your rounds out. From personal experience during a training exercise using a revolver with blanks, back when some LEOs still carried revolvers, I fired all 6 rounds and tried to get 3 of them to fired twice.

 

[David Bowman]

The technique taught is to "shoot them to the ground." Most people in their muscle memory will not draw, fire 2 rounds, assess, and then shoot more. Most of the students I see when doing any sort of Simunitions/Force on Force training find this impractical.

This makes it so the "assess" part of the gunfight can come whenever the defender is satisfied they have rendered the Bad Guy "combat ineffective" either through injury or surrender; instead of after a designated number of rounds.

The person can still move or resist and if they are wearing body armor or are hyped up on drugs; then they may not be feeling the damage the bullets are doing and will continue to fight or resist until overtaken by hypovolemic shock or they are shot in the face (thereby turning off the computer)

 

[Goosebrown]

Never had to get in any fight for 40 years but I want to think double tap, evaluate, repeat as necessary.

 

[SCARed]

Double taps... Are left over from revolver days. You shouldn't double tap, stop and reassess, you should be re-assessing the entire time your pulling the trigger and continually putting rounds on target.

 

[Goosebrown]

Double taps... Are left over from revolver days. You shouldn't double tap, stop and reassess, you should be re-assessing the entire time your pulling the trigger and continually putting rounds on target.

Ok if you have a full cap mag. But if you're with a carry piece some circumspection might be in order. I do think overall you're right though.

 

[slimmer13]

Too lazy to look it up right now but I believe the average DGU is two shots fired.

Theoretically the laws should be the same whether LEO or not but the practical reality is that different rules apply so don't do what they do expecting the same outcome.

 

[CHLChris]

Ok if you have a full cap mag. But if you're with a carry piece some circumspection might be in order. I do think overall you're right though.

I think everybody who carries daily should strongly consider making their "carry piece" a double stack with at least mid-size mags. PLUS carry a full-size mag for a reload. We live in dangerous times and should consider thinking of ourselves as first responders.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I have been in two positions where I had to draw down on people, both times scared the bubblegumhole out of me but I would have fired if they hadn't followed my commands.
But as far as emptying the magazine I cannot tell you but there is mega adrenaline flowing in confrontations with firearms let me tell ya.

 

[GeorgeMasonFan]

I think everybody who carries daily should strongly consider making their "carry piece" a double stack with at least mid-size mags. PLUS carry a full-size mag for a reload. We live in dangerous times and should consider thinking of ourselves as first responders.

I am not sure I would agree with this. First and foremost you should carry something that is comfortable to shoot. Often times people go grab the highest caliber firearm and go with the highest capacity mag they can fit in it. The result for many is that if they have to use it they won't be very accurate with it.

Go with comfort and accuracy first, and then get the largest capacity mag for that firearm you can carry.

And lastly, practice, practice, practice. Ultimately if you're accurate and have a comfortable piece you're less likely to kill an innocent if you find yourself in a shootout with an undesirable and you're more likely to put them down with fewer rounds.

 

[41Slinger]

We live in dangerous times and should consider thinking of ourselves as first responders.

As a CCL the only reason you can deploy your weapon is in self defense, we are not first responders, "NOT". If you show you firearm you are brandishing, not legal. If you deploy your firearm and witnesses say that because you deployed your firearm, people died unnecessarily, you are screwed. Just deploying your firearm legally, (everything you did was right) is still going to end up as a major trauma in you life, both physically and financially and yes I do carry.

And to the OP's post, (Judge, why did you shoot the perp 6 times, Defendant, that's all the bullets I had your Honor).

 

[GeorgeMasonFan]

I very much agree with 41Slinger, and to add to that it very much depends on where incidents happen. Me I live in VERY conservative and pro gun Klamath county where our sheriff is very pro gun and values trained civilians. And even with that your life will be turned upside down with the attention, lawyers, etc...

I can't even imagine what hell someone would go through on the west side of the mountains.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

People dont understand that bad guys dont go down like they do in the movies.

16 shots fired against some attackers is actually what it takes.. Short of a head shot.

Yes, the attacker will later die.. But to stop the immediate threat I have no doubt unless vital organs were hit they bad guy will still continue attack, and clearly some do.

Until someone is put in that position, its hard to tell. I for one would continue to fire until I heard a "click" if some weapon wielding tweaker wouldn't go down. Like others had said, its about stopping the threat.. Once he/she/it goes down your job is done. And most folks dont carry full sized pistols anyhow.. 7-10 shots to a torso isnt that many when the attacker is high on meth or PCP.

 

[Simonpie]

My only adrenaline story is pretty tame, but telling. My first time shooting Bullseye. You know, hand in the pocket, one arm extended with gun, target turns, 5 shots with a clock ticking. I'm being attacked by nothing more than a paper target. I have a .22 revolver and don't want to dry fire. You'd think I could count to five. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, click click, click, click.
To this day, if I want my pulse rate up, I just chant to myself, "Ready on the right. Ready on the left. Ready on the firing line."

 

[RicInOR]

Never had to, never hope to, never want to.

My plan is to go until the threat is stopped. To me that means he thinks he is stopped.

Some people are dead, just not yet. James Brady died about 30 years after being shot.


If you shoot until empty, then bad things can happen.
Silverado - Emmett (played by Scott Glenn) is out practicing when the bad guys revel themselves just as he went empty.

 

[No_Regerts]

Legally, as a ccw holder, you can shoot the number of rounds it takes to stop a deadly threat. Once the threat of death or serious bodily injury no longer exists, you stop shooting. This could mean dead bad guy or bad guy runs away. Once he no longer has the ability, oppurtunity and intent, he is no longer a threat.

As an LEO, you may shoot a fleeing suspect that is a serious threat to you or the public. It used to be fleeing felon, but Tennessee v. Garner changed that.

We don't train double tap and assess. We train center mass, working up cns to head if guy doesn't stop and finally breaking hips/pelvis to anchor if necessary. A cns hit is the most effective at a sure stop. Sometimes due to body armor or low hit probability, the pelvis becomes an effective option.

Shoot to stop the threat. I believe statistics show the average hits to end a gunfight is 3.something.

 

[CHLChris]

I think a lot of people have lost touch with the question of this thread. Not, should a self-defender consider it a good tactic? Nope. The question is, does a mag dump ever happen because of an adrenaline dump?

 

[Caveman Jim]

Double tap then evaluate then rinse and repeat if necessary.
No mag dumping with a pistol, AR15, different story....

 

[Raidingtime]

Two to the chest and one to the head. Repeat until threat(s) are eliminated....

Check surroundings.

Reload.

Check surroundings again.