So I saw this on YouTube last night. It's a shootout at a gas station between some thugs. Looks like they are carying lightly concealed carbines.

I will be the first to admit that I have generally not carried what I would consider as adequate firepower to deal with a situation like this. I have generally carried handguns with single stack magazines or revolvers. Multiple people armed with carbines is just not a scenario I plan for (except when I lived on the Mexican border). Is this the kind of scenario you personally prepare to deal with on a daily basis?
In this situation, I would not have drawn my EDC, whatever my EDC was. Assuming I was outside a car, I would have run to get behind the building...whether I had my trusty 686 or a high capacity plastic wonder. And whatever caliber. If I was in a car I would have driven off fast, even if I had a shotgun within reach. So while my 686 would have been inadequate for the situation, so would anything else I might be carrying. What would limit my ability and willingness to try to deal with the situation in some way better than running isn't my firearm having only 6 rounds. It's 4 or more bad buys, four or more carbines, rapidly moving targets busy with each other and probably likely to ignore me if I kept my gun concealed, a city full of dwellings where any bullet of mine might kill an innocent, and only the bad guys being targeted.
 
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There was a time that if you needed to use your gun it was probably going to be for a threat of a more personal nature...a mugging or you walked in on a convenience store robbery, etc. But life has gotten a whole lot crazier in recent years. The bad guys are flying jet liners into buildings and blowing up marathons and executing white men on the streets of Fresno because they're white and because religion of peace, and they're shooting up schools, and malls, and movie theaters, and night clubs, and parades, and work Christmas parties, and they're driving vans through crowds full of people, etc. You may also encounter multiple assailants and/or assailants armed with rifles like these idiots at the gas station.

With the above said, it likely is not possible to fully prepare for a situation like the gas station. A pistol would simply not be my first choice to deal with multiple bad guys with rifles/carbines. But it just isn't practical and/or legal to carry a rifle with you (on your person).

But I can certainly do better than a small, short sight radius'd, reduced capacity, can't get my whole hand on the grip, sub compact single stack gun. That simply is not a gun that I would actually want to have to fight with or bet my life on. I'm in the camp that a Glock 19 sized gun is as small as one should go. But I also don't have any problems carrying or concealing a G19 sized gun, even in summer. YMMV.
 
I agree, let the gang critters take each other out. Always have your head on a swivel and be aware of your surroundings. For me, this would have been a drive off, get the heck out of Dodge…

Based upon that video, I’d hope the critters can be identified and rounded up, perhaps amputate all their index and middle fingers, that should stop that type behavior…
 
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My EDC is a Bauer .25 auto I live in a very low crime area and its enough to get me to something else. If I go to a dung hole like Portland then I carry the .25 and most likely either my Charter Arms Undercover .38 revolver or my Remington R-51 9mm
 
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I carry a 10 round sub compact with 1 extra clipazine normally - I’m a big guy and even at the places where the crazies are about they don’t bother me personally.

That said, I do carry a G17 with a ‘standard capacity’ magazine and then depending on the destination 2 extra 17 round mags or 1 17 and 1 33 round mags.

If I’m traveling a fair distance or overnight then I add a rifle or shotgun to the vehicle. Maybe both - you don’t know me :p.



This was a fairly long time ago but I at one point in my life ran a paintball field and while we supplied simi-auto guns as rentals I had a fondness for a pump that I owned.

A buddy and I got invited to a pro teams practice and I got pinned down behind a large log by a guy with a simi-auto and we started trading shots.

I did eventually get a face shot and that reinforced to me that I’m better off with inferior hardware as long as it’s an extension of myself.



Another side note, working in and around portland all my life I ended up talking to a garbage truck driver in the wee hours of the morning and we were talking safety in that not so great part of town. His response was, “I don’t have anything worth stealing and the bangers are only interested in other bangers”.

So I guess yea I’m comfortable with a knife and a small pistol 99% of the time.

(If a couple people that know what they are doing are after you then they will probably get you - we can’t all be John Wick)
 
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I've considered putting a carbine or shotgun in my vehicle, but haven't pulled the trigger on that idea yet. Logistics of securing the firearm in my particular vehicle are a challenge, as there is not proper "trunk space". I really do wish a manufacturer would make an SBR-sized shallow lockbox for secure storage in a vehicle - I'd be all over that. However, guns in vehicles are far more likely to be stolen than used in a gunfight, so if I were to go that route it would need to be locked up as securely as possible.

If I were to eventually keep a long gun in the car, it would be strictly for peace of mind. My overall risk of being in a situation where grabbing a long gun would be appropriate is very low. I avoid places where violent altercations are most likely to happen, practice situational awareness when out and about (especially at gas stations, ATMs, grocery stores, etc), and constantly evaluate my surroundings for exits, cover, concealment, and weapons of opportunity. It also doesn't hurt that I'm a bigger dude that doesn't break the law or hang out with people who do. That being said, the state of our society appears to be worsening and I certainly wouldn't mind having some extra "insurance" close at hand if possible.

In the case of the spray n pray at the gas station, if I were there at the time I'd be more interested in hugging the dirt and scrambling for cover than pulling a long gun out of my vehicle. The brief window required to retrieve it would leave me exposed to fire from the assailants. Besides, breaking out a long gun amidst a bunch of bad guys also armed with long guns increases the likelihood of them purposely redirecting their fire in my direction, or of me being misidentified as a threat by responding officers, armed citizens, or bystanders.

If I were not directly in the line of fire I would get to cover and have my pistol ready in case someone starts slingin lead in my direction. If I were caught in the crossfire, then it's possible I would engage while seeking cover... kinda hard to say without actively being there, as there are so many variables involved. Are the threats fully or partially concealed? How close are they? What is behind or around them? Can they see me? Is my family with me, or am I alone? Are bystanders being shot indiscriminately, or does the fire appear to be "targeted" (using that term VERY loosely in this case) between the two groups of assailants? Rushing in without a plan is a good way to wind up dead. The mind is the weapon, the gun is just a tool. Whenever possible it's best to use the former before the latter so that both can be used again in the future.

Granted, sometimes circumstances require you to draw and engage immediately, but frequently there are warning signs or behavioral indicators to alert you to potential danger before it occurs so that you can avoid it, or opportunities to assess the situation and evade before committing yourself to engaging a potential threat. Hopefully we never find ourselves in those circumstances, but if we do, every situation is different and each person has to make their own assessment on what the right move is at that moment in time. Hopefully we choose wisely and are able to make it home to our families in one piece.
 
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For what it's worth, years ago I was walking outside the terminal at SFO with my ham radio HT (handie-talkie) in my hand. A younger fellow ran up to me and asked breathlessly, "Are you a cop?" When I said "No" he swore and ran off. I guess being 5' 16" tall, walking alert and carrying a radio projects an image...

That said, I'm glad concealed carry is an option now!
 
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In this situation, I would not have drawn my EDC, whatever my EDC was. Assuming I was outside a car, I would have run to get behind the building...whether I had my trusty 686 or a high capacity plastic wonder. And whatever caliber. If I was in a car I would have driven off fast, even if I had a shotgun within reach. So while my 686 would have been inadequate for the situation, so would anything else I might be carrying. What would limit my ability and willingness to try to deal with the situation in some way better than running isn't my firearm having only 6 rounds. It's 4 or more bad buys, four or more carbines, rapidly moving targets busy with each other and probably likely to ignore me if I kept my gun concealed, a city full of dwellings where any bullet of mine might kill an innocent, and only the bad guys being targeted.
Meh... let em pick each other off. Then... you only have to sneak around the corner and shoot the survivor. :s0140:
 
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it likely is not possible to fully prepare for a situation like the gas station.
You can only carry so much gear all the time, you can't be ready for some of the outliers.

the state of our society appears to be worsening and I certainly wouldn't mind having some extra "insurance" close at hand if possible.
With the police understaffed, trepedatious about making arrests and so forth, it's not apt to get better. If it comes to another Summer 2020 (or worse), we may see many people take up carrying a rifle daily for protection.

The brief window required to retrieve it would leave me exposed to fire from the assailants.
A victim is at a disadvantage to the crook, who is already poised to act and therefore has the initial upper hand. Quick thinking is definitely called for. Retrieving a rifle could put you at risk of death or injury. Taking the time to pull a handgun could pose a risk of death or injury. Freezing and putting your hands in the air might save your life. If robbery is their only motive and nobody has foreknowledge of that.

In the video posted by the OP, I couldn't tell if this was a robbery gone wrong or some kind of gang deal. It didn't appear to be a hold-up of an individual victim. Victims are at particular risk in gas station situatons. Where their attention is diverted by the mechanics of the transaction. And many such places are now havens for deadbeats and crooks.
 
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In the video posted by the OP, I couldn't tell if this was a robbery gone wrong or some kind of gang deal. It didn't appear to be a hold-up of an individual victim. Victims are at particular risk in gas station situatons. Where their attention is diverted by the mechanics of the transaction. And many such places are now havens for deadbeats and crooks.
To me it seemed to be rivals discovering they were both at the same gas station and getting into a gun battle.

Bystanders appeared to be at risk only from the wildly inaccurate gunfire. But what shocked me was how heavily armed they were. It used to be that such situations tended to involve handguns and shotguns. I experienced a couple of drive-by shootings back in the 80's. There's a big difference between an idiot firing off a couple of buckshot rounds as they drive by and what's in that video. The thugs are better armed now, clearly. Fortunately, they still shoot just as poorly.
 

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