How much constitutes hoarding?

[03A3Sporter]

Two and a half minutes of brilliance.

Lots of good Wisdom in Milton Friedman. I love those old Donahue Episodes, and for what it's worth Phil Donahue was very progressive even for today, but he was objective enough to want to hear the other side of the debate and give the ideas consideration.

Something we do not see now in society.

 

[Stomper]

But society has deemed what this guy did is indeed illegal. Thats all that binds a society together-the adhering to a certain set of norms, laws, etc. this guy is exhibiting more of a capitalist/libertarian perversion. That winner take all mentality is how America has ended up with one of the worst income gaps in he world for such a 'rich' nation.

Certain societies also deem women are livestock, and also deem those who don't adhere to a certain religious tenant or engage in "certain activities" as worthy of death, some also deemed to sacrifice babies to Moloch by throwing them into a fire to burn alive.....

 

[308]

If you have one more than me, you're hoarding.

I think that is a good perspective. It could also be applied to socialism where all animals start off as equal until something wears out and then some animals become more equal.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Certain societies also deem women are livestock, and also deem those who don't adhere to a certain religious tenant or engage in "certain activities" as worthy of death, some also deemed to sacrifice babies to Moloch by throwing them into a fire to burn alive.....

Lots of truth here, proceeding under the banner that society thinks something is right or wrong is how genocide and many other crimes have been perpetrated down through history. Yet many are so very willing to quickly herald the banner of societal compacts in the name of committing an immoral offense against their neighbors.

 

[nk02442]

Hoarding and Price gouging are concepts of Socialism/Communism/Liberaism/Evil.

They don't exist in the natural world and anyone who uses those terms should get a verbal lesson on why they are ignorant.

 

[nk02442]

Lots of truth here, proceeding under the banner that society thinks something is right or wrong is how genocide and many other crimes have been perpetrated down through history. Yet many are so very willing to quickly herald the banner of societal compacts in the name of committing an immoral offense against their neighbors.

When you realize the average IQ is 100, and how functionally retarded someone with an IQ of 100 is, it puts this into context. It then gets very scary when you realize 50% of the population is dumber.

That's what society is. A band of the unintelligent.

They still practice witchcraft in many parts of the world. Don't be an Albino born in Africa...…….

 

[762x39]

Remember Aesop's Fables "The Grasshopper and the Ant" ...

 

[03A3Sporter]

Remember Aesop's Fables "The Grasshopper and the Ant" ...

View attachment 680326

Based on many posts in this thread , I am pretty sure in modern day America many would label the ant as a greedy racist xenophobic capitalist.

The ant after all stockpiled for the hard times to come , and then had the temerity to be charitable of his own volition to the grasshopper when the hard winter came.

 

[CLT65]

If people want higher income they can stay in school, work hard and get better jobs that pay well. I know plenty of people who have risen from nothingness to hold high six figure salaries and hold prominent positions...myself included. I dont have a lot of sympathy for the dumb or the lazy.

Good on him for being a capitalist/Libertarian pervert.

I had a friend years ago who voiced the same opinion. He was a 6-figure, mid-level guy who's smart and hard working. I agreed with him, to a point, but only to a point. His opinion was that he had done well by putting in the hard work and long hours, and anyone too lazy to work hard didn't have his sympathy, and was undeserving of his charity.

As a caveat, I don't have much sympathy either for those who sit around and whine about how they're not "privileged", how society owes them a living for whatever reason. Life isn't fair; get over it. Pick yourself up, work hard, and make of yourself whatever you can. The only sympathy I have for them is that so many of them don't seem to know better. They've been taught that way of thinking their whole life, and have never lived up to whatever potential they may have because of it.

On the other hand, life isn't fair. We are not all born with the same inherent intelligence, abilities, potential, or ambition. To say that because you've made it in life and have lots of money and things, that anyone can, and if they don't they're just lazy and dumb; no offense but that's pretty arrogant. I thought the same thing when I heard it from my good friend 15 or 20 years ago. I know guys who are scraping by, working hard and taking care of their own. They don't have the abilities to make that 6-figure income and have fancy toys, but they do their best and don't whine and complain about fairness. I'll never look down on people like that, just because they haven't risen to the top. I'll also never belittle someone because of their intelligence; I've seen some really intelligent people do some incredibly stupid things.

As someone who is fairly conservative with libertarian leanings, I believe people should be allowed to succeed as they can, with limited government interference. I'm also not a big fan of forced fairness and compulsory charity. On an individual level though, I do believe that we have a moral obligation to try to help others when we can, voluntarily. I don't have much respect for people who say "I've got mine, I've worked hard and I'm keeping it. F U to the rest of the world!" (That's a moral judgement though, not a call for government action)

 

[wired]

I had a friend years ago who voiced the same opinion. He was a 6-figure, mid-level guy who's smart and hard working. I agreed with him, to a point, but only to a point. His opinion was that he had done well by putting in the hard work and long hours, and anyone too lazy to work hard didn't have his sympathy, and was undeserving of his charity.

As a caveat, I don't have much sympathy either for those who sit around and whine about how they're not "privileged", how society owes them a living for whatever reason. Life isn't fair; get over it. Pick yourself up, work hard, and make of yourself whatever you can. The only sympathy I have for them is that so many of them don't seem to know better. They've been taught that way of thinking their whole life, and have never lived up to whatever potential they may have because of it.

On the other hand, life isn't fair. We are not all born with the same inherent intelligence, abilities, potential, or ambition. To say that because you've made it in life and have lots of money and things, that anyone can, and if they don't they're just lazy and dumb; no offense but that's pretty arrogant. I thought the same thing when I heard it from my good friend 15 or 20 years ago. I know guys who are scraping by, working hard and taking care of their own. They don't have the abilities to make that 6-figure income and have fancy toys, but they do their best and don't whine and complain about fairness. I'll never look down on people like that, just because they haven't risen to the top. I'll also never belittle someone because of their intelligence; I've seen some really intelligent people do some incredibly stupid things.

As someone who is fairly conservative with libertarian leanings, I believe people should be allowed to succeed as they can, with limited government interference. I'm also not a big fan of forced fairness and compulsory charity. On an individual level though, I do believe that we have a moral obligation to try to help others when we can, voluntarily. I don't have much respect for people who say "I've got mine, I've worked hard and I'm keeping it. F U to the rest of the world!" (That's a moral judgement though, not a call for government action)

So whats your point? If you are smart, get the training, work hard , make good choices and hustle you can make it in life and be at least financially successful. No one says you have to look down on anyone but this concept of income inequality is a bunch of horse crap. If you earn it its yours. If not, its not yours. The world is full of people who made bad choices that put them where they didnt want to be. We all make choices. Am I envious of people who are super wealthy? Hell no. They work harder for it than I do and have made better choices. I do OK but I'm really lazy. I put in MAYBE 2-3 hours a day of work in the 60 or so hours a week I go to work. My bad.

 

[DB is Here]

In the same vein I also wonder how we've been served by being a consumer economy. In the 50's the average house was 800 square feet and no garage now the average is 2,200 square feet and a two car garage. You were doing well to have a TV now we cry and moan if we don't have 2-3 TVs.
I'll never put down the working class, I will however wonder how working a 40 hour work week ensures anyone the best of all luxuries.

 

[03A3Sporter]

In the same vein I also wonder how we've been served by being a consumer economy. In the 50's the average house was 800 square feet and no garage now the average is 2,200 square feet and a two car garage. You were doing well to have a TV now we cry and moan if we don't have 2-3 TVs.
I'll never put down the working class, I will however wonder how working a 40 hour work week ensures anyone the best of all luxuries.

I do not agree with this premise. However the blame for all of our societal ills today must rest solely on the shoulders of the individual, our consumer economy is a product of what the average American has come to demand over time. Our industry has responded by giving us what we want. Cheap goods on the buy now pay later program.

In the 1950's we had a different generation of folks raised with a much different mindset that encouraged saving, and in many cases denying yourself immediate gratification till you could pay for what you wanted . Our service economy of today exists purely because we insisted ever cheaper products , we were so eager for that end result that we willingly farmed our domestic production off shore. When people finally realized that Job at the plant that dad had from the 1950's to the 1980's was gone , they got upset but still want their $300 60 inch tv.

Americans today expect the just in time supply chain to just be there, because we no longer encourage savings, or preparing for lean times. That lack of a savings mind set is why most Americans have less than $500 in savings and the government is going to "helicopter" money into bank accounts.

 

[CLT65]

In the 1950's we had a different generation of folks raised with a much different mindset that encouraged saving, and in many cases denying yourself immediate gratification till you could pay for what you wanted . Our service economy of today exists purely because we insisted ever cheaper products , we were so eager for that end result that we willingly farmed our domestic production off shore. When people finally realized that Job at the plant that dad had from the 1950's to the 1980's was gone , they got upset but still want their $300 60 inch tv.

Americans today expect the just in time supply chain to just be there, because we no longer encourage savings, or preparing for lean times. That lack of a savings mind set is why most Americans have less than $500 in savings and the government is going to "helicopter" money into bank accounts.

Times have definitely changed. I guess I have some of that old-school mentality. I often feel like we struggle to get by, because I look around at everyone else who drive nicer, newer vehicles, and have a lot more toys. Then I realize that many, if not most, of those people also have a lot more debt and a lot less savings. It's a trade-off; my needs and wants out of life are pretty simple. As long as my family is taken care of, I really don't need much.

 

[RicInOR]

...

the government is going to "helicopter" money into bank accounts.

... so long as they don't helicopter it out. And they certainly have the capability to do so. ( This does include any investments listed in some brokerage / exchange )

 

[CLT65]

So whats your point? If you are smart, get the training, work hard , make good choices and hustle you can make it in life and be at least financially successful. No one says you have to look down on anyone but this concept of income inequality is a bunch of horse crap. If you earn it its yours. If not, its not yours. The world is full of people who made bad choices that put them where they didnt want to be. We all make choices. Am I envious of people who are super wealthy? Hell no. They work harder for it than I do and have made better choices. I do OK but I'm really lazy. I put in MAYBE 2-3 hours a day of work in the 60 or so hours a week I go to work. My bad.

Sorry, I know I quoted you, but my comments weren't necessarily aimed at you. They were really more in response to my friend's arrogant attitude long ago. He really did look down on those who weren't as successful as he was. I do agree with you completely about income equality, but I also realize that not everyone is capable of the same level of economic success.

The reason I feel the way I do is because I didn't learn about this until my late 20s. Because of the way I was raised, I didn't understand opportunity and how to get ahead. I knew how to work hard, but wallowed in economic poverty because I just didn't have a clue. That changed when a good job fell in my lap and I moved away from where I grew up to take it. I grew up quick and learned a lot about life pretty fast. I was mad at myself for how stupid I was, wasting those years when I should have been building a career.

There are a lot of people out there who are good people, who are stuck in a culture or mindset that's holding them back. They don't need a handout, nor should they be belittled. What they really need is help to somehow get it through their heads that they really can make something of themselves and support themselves if they just learn to recognize the opportunity. I know from experience; it's a life changing, eye opening revelation. That is definitely a lot harder for some people than for others, and some need more help than others, but again, life isn't fair.

We do OK. If my wife had continued her career we'd have plenty of money for nice stuff, but raising kids and some medical issues put a stop to that, so we get by on one income. That's not so easy nowadays but we get by and I really can't complain. I fully know I could have gone further and made more money if I were more ambitious and willing to put in longer hours. I work a 40 hour week (sometimes a lot more when necessary) and have no interest in a job with longer hours on a regular basis, because my kids are young and spending time with my family is my priority.

 

[03A3Sporter]

We do OK. If my wife had continued her career we'd have plenty of money for nice stuff, but raising kids and some medical issues put a stop to that, so we get by on one income. That's not so easy nowadays but we get by and I really can't complain. I fully know I could have gone further and made more money if I were more ambitious and willing to put in longer hours. I work a 40 hour week (sometimes a lot more when necessary) and have no interest in a job with longer hours on a regular basis, because my kids are young and spending time with my family is my priority.

The part I bolded is something I really want to touch on , people talk about how much better we had it as a society in the 50's , however one of the reasons that mom was able to stay home and raise the kids is because families figured out how to make it on one income.

American's today actually do earn more money than our fathers or grand fathers did and that is adjusted for inflation as well. However our parents were often times willing to do without and were not quite as materially consumed as we are today.


I inherited a Model 12 from a grand father. That gun was his pride and joy. He used it for decades to take all manner of fowl and small game. During my youth I heard him recant to me how he worked side jobs and skipped lunches for months to purchase that shotgun at a cost of $70 .

I do not own a gun that I ever had to skip meals or work any side jobs in order to purchase, and I am far from wealthy by anyone's standards. I am not even certain that I meet the bar to entry for middle class these days as that level of income is rapidly entering the 6 figure income terrority just to be in lower middle class. I am however not frivolous with my money and do not spend it on the latest phone every 6 months, and have not purchased a new car since 2003.

 

[ma96782]

Nertz. I just wish I was that guy making a 700% markup. Nice margin there.

My wife has type AB+ blood. Universal plasma donor. If she sells her plasma she'll get $50 a liter. By the time its processed and packaged the company selling it will get $10,000 for her plasma. Fair? Not much in life is.

If she doesn't want the $50 per liter..... then she doesn't have to go to the plasma place to sell it (or give it).

Rrrrright, currently...…..
*No one is strapping her down to force her to give up her plasma (NO guns or laws/edicts involved). See how that works?

*OMG....shades of Mad Max Fury Road.

Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

If she doesn't want the $50 per liter..... then she doesn't have to go to the plasma place to "give it". No one is forceing her at gun point to give up her plasma. See how that works?

Aloha, Mark

And no one is forcing anyone to buy overpriced PPE. They can buy elsewhere or pay market rates. If I have to pay $15 for an aspirin in their hospital cry me a damn river if they have to pay $4 from a mask scalper.

 

[CLT65]

If I have to pay $15 for an aspirin in their hospital

Now that's a whole 'nuther story... Talk about gouging!

 

[CLT65]

I inherited a Model 12 from a grand father. That gun was his pride and joy. He used it for decades to take all manner of fowl and small game. During my youth I heard him recant to me how he worked side jobs and skipped lunches for months to purchase that shotgun at a cost of $70 .

I do not own a gun that I ever had to skip meals or work any side jobs in order to purchase, and I am far from wealthy by anyone's standards. I am not even certain that I meet the bar to entry for middle class these days as that level of income is rapidly entering the 6 figure income terrority just to be in lower middle class. I am however not frivolous with my money and do not spend it on the latest phone every 6 months, and have not purchased a new car since 2003.

You make a good point. I've got a safe full of guns, and could go out and buy more without much sacrifice, if I wanted to. And yet I feel "poor" somehow, by modern standards. We've been through some tough times, but not to the degree that my parents did in decades past, or my grandparents long ago. We might drive old cars and go without nice vacations and other expensive toys, but we've really got it pretty good. We exercise some basic discipline and self-control, and get along fine.

AOC said something a while back about how her generation has never known American prosperity. BS! Bubblegum of the highest order! Her generation can't even recognize prosperity, because they've never known anything else!