How much constitutes hoarding?

[BrandonQuixote]

There's no such thing. "hoarding" is a relative term, a concept at best.

 

[Alexx1401]

Do you have a reliable citation to support this claim?

Nothing I've found even comes close.

You are dealing with "the world as people want it to be", instead of how it really is. Often people "want something" to be fact, so they will find someone to say it is. After that emotion takes over and there is no longer any facts allowed to be heard by them. I have zero doubt you could find some obscure post somewhere to say anything. People who are ruled by emotion will find that and after that no facts that do not agree will ever be seen. <shrug>
We see a LOT of this with the POTUS. So many have a deranged hatred of him they will believe anything negative said about him. Show them facts that go against that and they no longer read further.
This is why this very heavy handed control is so far being pretty much followed along with like lemmings. Kind of sad and scary but it is the world we have to live in.

 

[ma96782]

Well isn't the definition of stuff and certain concepts..... a large part of the problem(s) we face?

Like: How the hell did a bump stock.....all of a sudden become a Machine Gun?

Rrrright..... Redefine stuff to suit a perverted view.



Aloha, Mark

PS....more, about defining stuff....remember this old one.....

The phrase "I know it when I see it" is a colloquial expression by which a speaker attempts to categorize an observable fact or event, although the category is subjective or lacks clearly defined parameters. The phrase was used in 1964 by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio.[1][2] In explaining why the material at issue in the case was not obscene under the Roth test, and therefore was protected speech that could not be censored, Stewart wrote:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

 

[bikemutt]

Big pharma is certainly replete with examples of abject greed and borderline inhumane behavior. Some of them got caught and deservedly punished.

My personal experience has been the exact opposite. At the ripe old age of 38 I almost died from a heart attack, followed by another one. I suffered from hiperlipidemia or high cholesterol, to an extent that's unusual. After emergency heart surgery to save my life I started taking a new drug, Lipitor, a statin drug. My condition isn't about one too many McDonald's burgers, it's about genetics.

Liptior is now off-patent so I take the generic. I've tried every flavor of statin, none of them work for me like atorvostatin (Liptior).

God willing I'll see my 65th year of life this October. I'm not throwing Pfizer under the bus anytime soon.

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[Alexx1401]

Well isn't the definition of stuff and certain concepts..... a large part of the problem(s) we face?

Like: How the hell did a bump stock.....all of a sudden become a Machine Gun?

Rrrright..... Redefine stuff to suit a perverted view.

View attachment 679659

Aloha, Mark

Sadly the Fed's have been doing this LONG before Al invented the internet or someone came up with the bumpstock. Long ago someone came up with a semi shotgun with larger capacity. They sold well enough another tooled up to make one. One day the Feds decided these were suddenly an NFA item. They told everyone who had one they could register them free one time. That works fine except that in many states this is a HUGE problem back then.
When Wife started to carry she went through a HUGE number of guns and carry methods. One that quickly failed was a wallet holster made by Galco. It promptly ended up in the box of unloved and unused holsters. Years later Al invented the net and I read they had also made these an NFA item and made people stop making them. I got that box out and put that holster up on Ebay. It was a stupid simple design that anyone with a Tandy leather kit could make. I made it clear in the ad that to use this as designed would make the thing an NFA item. I was kind of surprised Ebay let it run. People bid it up to enough someone could have just made 10 of them but I figured what the hell. Buyer paid and seemed happy. Voters support this kind of thing so they again get the Government they deserve <shrug>

 

[OldBroad44]

Do you have a reliable citation to support this claim?

Nothing I've found even comes close.

Was involved in university research in genetics/biochem/microbiology for 15years. Have phud in it. Was head of a university lab group in that area with grants from NIH, NSF, American Cancer Institute, etc. Now am self-supporting plant breeder, but many of my colleagues are university plant breeders.

Its been established government policy for decades that government tries to support basic research and early-stage applied research--stuff that companies cant do because its too long term. Or because there is no obvious commercial application. Often there are commercial payoffs, just unpredictable as to what. All the grants I received operated based on those assumptions. Dont have time to look up a quote saying that.

 

[wired]

Like: How the hell did a bump stock.....all of a sudden become a Machine Gun?

Yes, There is no possible way a bump stock could ever emulate the function of a machine gun. Confusing the two could never happen..A bump stock could never fire as fast as a real machine gun. I read that on the internet.

 

[bikemutt]

@OldBroad44, public-funded (govt) research and development has certainly played a huge role in some of our society's greatest inventions and innovations. I say this tongue in cheek but didn't NASA get us Tang

Credit where its due was my only point.

 

[Koda]

I say this tongue in cheek but didn't NASA get us Tang

Tongue in cheek will literally get you Tang... yes.

 

[wired]

The last time I had tang was around 1974. My dad came running in the house screaming bloody murder after he cut his toes off with the lawn mower. I was drinking Tang and threw it up in the air. Havent had Tang since.

 

[OldBroad44]

If the real problem is actually Shortages.....
Consider how it's the CHINESE fault (or maybe it's just that they are better businessmen)?

Aloha, Mark

Most of the masks are produced in china and korea. In addition, many people in china wear masks fairly regularly because of air pollution. So chinese factories were already producing lots of masks routinely for their own population.

 

[ma96782]

Yes, There is no possible way a bump stock could ever emulate the function of a machine gun. Confusing the two could never happen..A bump stock could never fire as fast as a real machine gun. I read that on the internet.

Using that sort of logic......
Owning a "rubber band or coat hanger" .....means that you own a Machine Gun?

IMHO......bump stocks were at one time blessed as legal by the ATF. And then, in and of itself.......the common bump stock is just a stock.

As I said.....
"Redefine stuff to suit a perverted view."

Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

Using that sort of logic......
Owning a "rubber band or coat hanger" .....means that you own a Machine Gun?

IMHO......bump stocks were at one time blessed as legal by the ATF. And in and of itself.......the common bump stock is just a stock.

As I said.....
"Redefine stuff to suit a perverted view."

Aloha, Mark

Thank Trump for that one. Even the ATF has stated that they have no legal authority to ban bumpstocks. They wrere just told to do it.

Yes, Bumpstocks do fire a lot faster and more reliably than with the rubber band slight of hand. The mechanism makes no difference. Its the cyclic rate that does. On the flip side the coat hanger ( swift link) thing is as much of a machine gun as an actual M16 sear machine gun. The coat hanger just subs in for the sear or lightning link. Different design same thing. Same thing with the shoestring trick. Bolt closes, hammer drops with no additional input from the operator. Machine Gun.

 

[ma96782]

Most of the masks are produced in china and korea. In addition, many people in china wear masks fairly regularly because of air pollution. So chinese factories were already producing lots of masks routinely for their own population.

You didn't watch it...... did you?

OK, Ok, ok....maybe the word "stole" was NOT correct.

Anyway....it seems to me that having to explain..... Well, it's become tasking. So, whatever. After all......it's from the Internet.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

Thank Trump for that one. Even the ATF has stated that they have no legal authority to ban bumpstocks. They wrere just told to do it.

Yes, Bumpstocks do fire a lot faster and more reliably than with the rubber band slight of hand. The mechanism makes no difference. Its the cyclic rate that does. On the flip side the coat hanger ( swift link) thing is as much of a machine gun as an actual M16 sear machine gun. The coat hanger just subs in for the sear or lightning link. Different design same thing. Same thing with the shoestring trick. Bolt closes, hammer drops with no additional input from the operator. Machine Gun.

There is a difference.

The mere ownership of a bump stock makes you a felon.

The mere ownership of a rubberband or coat hanger doesn't make you a felon.

As for the TRUMP comment.....Whatever. I'll still vote for the lesser of evils.

Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

There is a difference.

The mere ownership of a bump stock makes you a felon.

The mere ownership of a rubberband or coat hanger doesn't make you a felon.

As for the TRUMP comment.....Whatever.

Aloha, Mark

The whatever is true. Trump is no friend to the 2nd amendment . Never has been.
You can own a rubber band. You can own a coat hanger. If you fashion a coat hanger or any other piece of metal into a swift link you have created a machine gun. Thats on you. Intent and all . Lots of case law backing that up. No case law backing up bump stocks. If you fashion a piece of metal into a lightning link or a DIAS you have created a machine gun. According to the ATF and its ultimate head if you own a bump stock you own a machine gun. Pretty cut and dry really.

 

[bikemutt]

The whatever is true. Trump is no friend to the 2nd amendment . Never has been.
You can own a rubber band. You can own a coat hanger. If you fashion a coat hanger or any other piece of metal into a swift link you have created a machine gun. Thats on you. Intent and all . Lots of case law backing that up. No case law backing up bump stocks. If you fashion a piece of metal into a lightning link or a DIAS you have created a machine gun. According to the ATF and its ultimate head if you own a bump stock you own a machine gun. Pretty cut and dry really.

Rubber bands and coat hangers have many uses that go far beyond what they were originally developed for, what exactly were bump stocks developed for? What sort of alternate uses are there for bump stocks?

I'm not saying I agree with the bump stock ban but, something designed which has only a single purpose is vastly different when compared to things designed to hold pieces of paper together or hang clothes on that may be assembled into something else.

 

[ma96782]

The whatever is true. Trump is no friend to the 2nd amendment . Never has been.
You can own a rubber band. You can own a coat hanger. If you fashion a coat hanger or any other piece of metal into a swift link you have created a machine gun. Thats on you. Intent and all . Lots of case law backing that up. No case law backing up bump stocks. If you fashion a piece of metal into a lightning link or a DIAS you have created a machine gun. According to the ATF and its ultimate head if you own a bump stock you own a machine gun. Pretty cut and dry really.

As I said.....
"Redefine stuff to suit a perverted view."

LOL....cut and dry, that the 2nd A says......

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

and NOT.....

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless I say it's reasonable.

Aloha, Mark

 

[CamoDeafie]

Also nowhere in the 2A does "the people" be taken to mean "the State/government"

Does the 2A say " A well regulated militia/military being necessary for the security of a free state; the right of the Militia/military or State to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
?
After all, who has most of the machine guns as defined by the ATF? Who has most of the "destructive devices"? Warships? Combat aircraft? Combat vehicles? Small arms?

Does the 2A say "the right of the people to keep and bear only small arms"? Or
" the right of the people to keep and bear only sporting arms"?



And we are yet again way off track.

Back to the "hoarding" issue. Honestly my feelings are a little mixed.. but I say this... people should be allowed to buy as much of whatever they want to buy and keep as they can with no punishment or shame. reselling; thats very subjective, is it unethical when Goodwill Industries sell palletloads of new in package adult diapers at retail prices?
Where'd they get them?
What about when a church organization keeps and resell donated clothing by the binloads? Is that hoarding for profit?

No? Its okay when a business or an organization does it?

Then why should it be any different when its a private citizen doing the same?