How much constitutes hoarding?

[03A3Sporter]

How many in society believe in the 2A?

Instances of societal tyranny is a different subject.

Anytime you advocate that society gets to decide what and how much one can own or have then you are advocating for something totally foreign to what I want in my life.

The one beautiful thing about America even today is that you can accumulate as much as you WANT assuming you have the ability and desire to do so. I do not need others making that decision for me

 

[CLT65]

Capitalism isn't perfect it just doesn't have a close #2.

the downfall of unrestrained capitalism is greed.

I think these are both true. Any human system is only as good as the people running it. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the economic system that is most compatible with basic human nature.

John Adams famously said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Don't take offense if you're not "religious"; I know that many here in the PNW seem to really hate that. Insert the term "ethical" there, if you wish. A truly free society only works well if most people have some sort of strong moral or ethical code that they live by. If you don't have a strong government breathing down your neck, telling you what to do, then you need a personal code of ethics making you do the right thing. Otherwise it all breaks down into greed and chaos.

 

[41mag]

. I do not need others making that decision for me

....please report to the hospitality towers....and inflate your shoes......

 

[Koda]

Anytime you advocate that society gets to decide what and how much one can own or have then you are advocating for something totally foreign to what I want in my life.

The one beautiful thing about America even today is that you can accumulate as much as you WANT assuming you have the ability and desire to do so. I do not need others making that decision for me

There is a balance in everything in life. I'm curious how you feel about Martin Shkreli jacking the price of his drugs up overnight?

 

[CLT65]

As to expensive meds and "Big Pharma", my son has to have some expensive meds that cost $5k per month. The drug manufacturer has a "copay assist" program that helps with the cost. Basically they soak the insurance, and write off everything over $5 per month for our part.

Well, the insurance got wise to that. This year they decided that they wouldn't recognize the copay assist program, and wouldn't apply anything towards our huge deductible that we didn't actually pay out of pocket. And the copay assist maxes out pretty quick when we haven't met our deductible and we can't get the meds at all. What that means in practical terms is that we pay the first month out of pocket completely, then use the copay assist after that. With that one "minor" change they increased our medical expenses close to $5,000.

At the same time, it really is a wonder drug. For him, it means the difference between a pretty normal life, and being crippled and possibly blind.

 

[Koda]

With that one "minor" change they increased our medical expenses close to $5,000.

At the same time, it really is a wonder drug. For him, it means the difference between a pretty normal life, and being crippled and possibly blind.

pretty much the definition of greed isnt it? Your sons life shouldn't be based on funding some CEOs 3rd yact... there shouldnt be a pricetag on human life.

 

[03A3Sporter]

There is a balance in everything in life. I'm curious how you feel about Martin Shkreli jacking the price of his drugs up overnight?

I think you buttoned it perfectly. His drugs , his property and his IP. His to do with as he wishes.

 

[Koda]

I think you buttoned it perfectly. His drugs , his property and his IP. His to do with as he wishes.

...and look what society did to him. Looks like society defined his greed.

 

[shibbershabber]

Hoarding is pretty relative term ...

How much is too much? Well, its hard to say... for many of us having 2-3 thousand rounds for a rifle is not a big deal, its a few cases, can fit in passenger seat of your car and can be depleted in a few trips to the range... however, for those not in the know... its an excessively dangerous amount that no normal person needs.

Who is to say what is reasonable for face masks? Who knows, maybe its something you use or anticipate using on a regular basis and having a couple thousand is no big deal, just a couple of cases, right?
What about Facebook and these other tech bubblegums, why did they have hundreds of thousands of masks? Did they 'donate' them to get ahead of being raided by the feds for hoarding?

It is the old slippery slope... we can look at something as a society and say that what is being done is wrong, but should we also be able to turn in our neighbors if we think they have too much of something? It is easy to trust the market sometimes, where there is some dillhole selling masks at a 1000000000% mark up, people just dont buy them... not the only game in town.
Meds are a little different though, in many cases you have no choice but to buy them... everyone knows they have you over a barrel... you pay or die.
It sucks. Its bullbubblegum... but we cannot say "redistribution for thee but not for me" ... Instead of forcing price controls, etc the .gov is supposed be creating an environment where there can be competition... again, not so easy in this industry. AND of course the gov is not interested in that, because we all know big pharma greases te wheels in DC and every state house in the country. Surely they have sway over potential legislation that would create competition. If a bunch of dickheads on twitter can get a profitable company to stop selling one of their most popular items (like Dicks & Walmart giving up guns) why doesnt a similar attack campaign go after Pfizer or Merck to ease up on the costs? Certainly there are some ways to influence the market without the gov doing it?

How can I say to the gov, you cannot take my things from me but turn around and expect them to do the same to another entity?
Is it absolutely reprehensible for a manufacturer to have a life saving medication that they charge thousands of dollars per dose for, yet only pay some Chinese lab to make for a few hundred dollars per dose... But when you have the gov get involved directly controlling price, what is next? Gas? Food? YOUR labor? Your choice of work or where to live? How much you pay for rent? How much food you can have on hand? How many rolls of tp or tampons you can have in your pantry? Too many frozen left overs?

Trust me, comrade... when they come for the Kulaks, you will cheer... then you will weep.

 

[03A3Sporter]

...and look what society did to him. Looks like society defined his greed.

Actually his conviction had nothing do to with his raising prices on those drugs. It was counts of securities fraud that got him convicted.

Let's not confuse facts with marxist desires.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Hoarding is pretty relative term ...



How can I say to the gov, you cannot take my things from me but turn around and expect them to do the same to another entity?
Is it absolutely reprehensible for a manufacturer to have a life saving medication that they charge thousands of dollars per dose for, yet only pay some Chinese lab to make for a few hundred dollars per dose... But when you have the gov get involved directly controlling price, what is next? Gas? Food? YOUR labor? Your choice of work or where to live? How much you pay for rent? How much food you can have on hand? How many rolls of tp or tampons you can have in your pantry? Too many frozen left overs?

Trust me, comrade... when they come for the Kulaks, you will cheer... then you will weep.

Lots of truth here ...

 

[Koda]

Actually his conviction had nothing do to with his raising prices on those drugs. It was counts of securities fraud that got him convicted.

Let's not confuse facts with marxist desires.

I maintain it was his greed that did him in but it was Shkreli himself that says his price hike is what got him arrested.

 

[CLT65]

pretty much the definition of greed isnt it? Your sons life shouldn't be based on funding some CEOs 3rd yact... there shouldnt be a pricetag on human life.

Yes, it's infuriating, but at the same time at least it's available. His specialist said that her colleagues in other countries, like the UK and Australia, complain about how long it takes for newly diagnosed patients to get approved for the medication. In these countries with socialist health care, it can take a year or more for them to approve expensive drugs like this. All the while, lifelong damage is accumulating in a young child's body, every month that they don't have the medication.

 

[03A3Sporter]

I maintain it was his greed that did him in but it was Shkreli himself that says his price hike is what got him arrested.


According to the Dept of Justice it was the securities fraud while he was at MSMB Capital Management.

 

[Koda]

Yes, it's infuriating, but at the same time at least it's available. His specialist said that her colleagues in other countries, like the UK and Australia, complain about how long it takes for newly diagnosed patients to get approved for the medication. In these countries with socialist health care, it can take a year or more for them to approve expensive drugs like this. All the while, lifelong damage is accumulating in a young child's body, every month that they don't have the medication.

I hear conflicting stories on that, not certain what to believe... though with the way liberal bureaucracy runs rampant I would not be surprised it takes a long time to get what you need. But then whats more damaging, waiting a year for an essential drug, or how about those that cant afford $5K a month?

I just wish there was a balance in healthcare.

 

[Koda]

According to the Dept of Justice it was the securities fraud while he was at MSMB Capital Management.

Martin Shkreli Says Drug-Price Hikes Led to Arrest

Former pharmaceutical executive Martin Shkreli says he was targeted for much-criticized price increases and over-the-top public persona

www.wsj.com

 

[03A3Sporter]

Yes, it's infuriating, but at the same time at least it's available.

Yet I think most advocating for social justice here lose that point entirely. Free markets and profit incentive make it available.

 

[NeSeR13]

What if this is all a simulation and everything you're hoarding doesn't really exist? Or not.

 

[03A3Sporter]

Martin Shkreli Says Drug-Price Hikes Led to Arrest

Former pharmaceutical executive Martin Shkreli says he was targeted for much-criticized price increases and over-the-top public persona

www.wsj.com

Go read the Federal Indictment papers

 

[Koda]

Go read the Federal Indictment papers

I'll give you that one cause I dont trust Shkreli...