JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Status
Do we have a ( Not Fake) News or other credible source to work with here as per the O.P. or is this just a Hypothetical Situation?
I'm curious if this is actually happening and who the LEO are, and under what authority they are operating under! ;)


Then....
It's also about Govt confiscation. So I'll leave this here.....

Cuomo to sign order allowing for ventilators to be taken from private companies

IMHO, calling the practice...... "BORROWING" ......doesn't cut it.

Aloha, Mark
 
its worth noting that they did not charge him with hoarding supplies.

I suppose you can take that stance , reading the entire article certainly belies your opinion ... being charged for not not honestly disclosing what he had or did not have certainly has the feel that he is being prosecuted for indeed having a large supply and profiting from it . When the government has said they will take private property from individuals during this "crisis"
 
I suppose you can take that stance , reading the entire article certainly belies your opinion ... being charged for not not honestly disclosing what he had or did not have certainly has the feel that he is being prosecuted for indeed having a large supply and profiting from it . When the government has said they will take private property from individuals during this "crisis"

its not a stance I'm taking its what was written in that article above. I don't have an issue with them charging him for lying and assault, the real question here is why they were investigating him in the first place?

I have no problem with the free market and supply and demand, but is there a limit in a major crisis where hospitals are overwhelmed, out of needed supplies and a hundred thousand are projected to die in the upcoming weeks?


Capitalism thought experiment, in a hypothetical small and isolated community, if a rich guy owns all the medicine to cure a fatal disease spreading around rapidly and refuses to even sell it would the rest of the community be justified in taking it by force? What if the rich guy would sell it for such a ridiculously high price that not everyone dying in the community could afford it, yet he had enough to go around?
 
I never said I supported confiscating anyone's private property you need to go and re - read what I said. I was saying they charged him for profiteering and lying to the FBI about what he had , that certainly sounds like they were charging the man for stockpiling (hoarding) and profiteering.

As I said earlier in my initial post I do not believe in the concept of hoarding, gouging or profiteering. Items are worth what the market will bear . When the price gets too high and people stop buying then the market corrects and the prices come down to meet the actual consumer demand
 
I have no problem with the free market and supply and demand, but is there a limit in a major crisis where hospitals are overwhelmed, out of needed supplies and a hundred thousand are projected to die in the upcoming weeks?


Capitalism thought experiment, in a hypothetical small and isolated community, if a rich guy owns all the medicine to cure a fatal disease spreading around rapidly and refuses to even sell it would the rest of the community be justified in taking it by force? What if the rich guy would sell it for such a ridiculously high price that not everyone dying in the community could afford it, yet he had enough to go around?

By this logic any thing someone in power wants to deem a "crisis" means that a citizen and his property are subject to the whims others if it is deemed that confiscation is in the "public" good.
 
its not a stance I'm taking its what was written in that article above. I don't have an issue with them charging him for lying and assault, the real question here is why they were investigating him in the first place?

I have no problem with the free market and supply and demand, but is there a limit in a major crisis where hospitals are overwhelmed, out of needed supplies and a hundred thousand are projected to die in the upcoming weeks?


Capitalism thought experiment, in a hypothetical small and isolated community, if a rich guy owns all the medicine to cure a fatal disease spreading around rapidly and refuses to even sell it would the rest of the community be justified in taking it by force? What if the rich guy would sell it for such a ridiculously high price that not everyone dying in the community could afford it, yet he had enough to go around?

Dude should have been more concerned about his neighbors then the Gov...

But selling at a 700% markup seems like robbery in this case.

Wanna sell .22lr for 11¢ a round and people buy it or a case of 9mm for $350, that's capitalism.

Selling life saving items at that markup seems extremely in humane imo.
 
By this logic any thing someone in power wants to deem a "crisis" means that a citizen and his property are subject to the whims others if it is deemed that confiscation is in the "public" good.
yup.
I'm not saying its right or wrong but at the end of the day nature will make it about survival of the fittest. That's a natural law that cant be regulated and in this case nobody's going to argue against the person in power.

The big question here is why were the feds investigating this guy in the first place? Honestly, 700% markup in a major national crisis where thousands are dying and hospitals which are the epicenters of the diseased don't have the PPE to prevent infecting more of the community... is a pretty good reason to investigate this guy. This is the downside to unchecked capitalism.


Selling life saving items at that markup seems extremely in humane imo.
agree.
 
"If you are amassing critical medical equipment for the purpose of selling it at exorbitant prices, you can expect a knock at your door," Attorney General Bill Barr said in a statement.
HHS is expected to pay the owner of the hoarded equipment pre-COVID-19 fair market value for the supplies.

 
Ok, so; Buddy has a daughter who has a rare medical condition which requires daily medication, said meds cost $16,000 per month! When does profit for a product become extortion? Does this med actually cost pharma $16,000 to produce a monthly supply, or are they profiteering on their exclusivity? BTW, the same med in Europe costs about $800 per month!
So, who is screwing who?
 
powers under the Defense Production Act,

"Once specific materials are so designated, persons are prohibited from accumulating those items in excess of reasonable personal or business needs or for the purpose of selling them in excess of prevailing market prices," Attorney General William Barr said at a White House briefing last Monday.




Is this "taking?" Meaning does the current owner get compensated for their property? (Eminent domain) If so at what price point? Retail, current retail, some set government contract, wholesale ...
Is this a moral right to take these items without a trial?
 
Ok, so; Buddy has a daughter who has a rare medical condition which requires daily medication, said meds cost $16,000 per month! When does profit for a product become extortion? Does this med actually cost pharma $16,000 to produce a monthly supply, or are they profiteering on their exclusivity? BTW, the same med in Europe costs about $800 per month!
So, who is screwing who?

Some pharmas have special programs for such meds - I have a close family member whose meds started at $40K per year and have since doubled (IIRC) - not a rare medical condition either. When that person did not have insurance that would cover it, this person was on a program where it was given to them for free. Otherwise insurance paid for it.

For rare conditions, I could see how yes, it can cost the pharma a lot to make it available. Remember, they not only have to dedicate a production line to it, they have to do R&D, clinical tests, run thru the bureaucracy of the FDA/etc. (sometimes the DEA too), and then they are liable for any problems with the med. All of this costs millions and if the med condition is rare, then the cost is spread over a much smaller number of people.

It can be less expensive elsewhere because of different regulatory situations, and different insurance, and different liability laws.

Some people make regular trips overseas as they find it is cheaper to do it that way. Not always possible though due to import laws and some meds can't be transported that far.
 
Ok, so; Buddy has a daughter who has a rare medical condition which requires daily medication, said meds cost $16,000 per month! When does profit for a product become extortion? Does this med actually cost pharma $16,000 to produce a monthly supply, or are they profiteering on their exclusivity? BTW, the same med in Europe costs about $800 per month!
So, who is screwing who?
Sadly stuff like meds is grossly lied about. Yes "big Pharma" does make big money off newer drugs. Take that away and guess what happens? Those miracle drugs will never be seen. It can cost multi millions or more to develop a new drug. At every step of the way the Fed's have their hand out taking money. Then after the Fed's approve a drug, years later lawyers show up wanting a huge pay out because some used the drug the wrong way. So "big Pharma" has to pay that too. The drugs in other countries that are so cheap are due to price controls. Those who want to see that here great, say goodbye to new drugs. "Big Pharma" is coming up with a way to test and treat this latest thing. They do it because it promises to make money. Pull that rug out and watch them all stop. Sadly it's the way it works. I was supposed to be dead a couple decades ago. Had a disease they had no cure for. I got lucky. Big pharma came up with a cure after over a decade of working on it. Cure cost my insurance over 100K. Want to take a wild guess what pharma had to pay for those years of testing and to get approval? If they could not make money they would never have bothered to work on the cure and I would be gone.
 
Dude should have been more concerned about his neighbors then the Gov...

But selling at a 700% markup seems like robbery in this case.

Wanna sell .22lr for 11¢ a round and people buy it or a case of 9mm for $350, that's capitalism.

Selling life saving items at that markup seems extremely in humane imo.
This guy was begging for trouble. He bought pallets of stuff and was making a huge markup. His fatal mistake was lying to the FBI. Remember Martha Stewart? She did not go to prison for the stock sale. She went for lying to the feds.
 
Ok, so; Buddy has a daughter who has a rare medical condition which requires daily medication, said meds cost $16,000 per month! When does profit for a product become extortion? Does this med actually cost pharma $16,000 to produce a monthly supply, or are they profiteering on their exclusivity? BTW, the same med in Europe costs about $800 per month!
So, who is screwing who?

Big Pharma becomes BIG PHARMA by making money. But, at the same time, I have to consider patents, research costs, stockholders, etc..... So then.......I've often wondered about the price differences from country to country too.

I don't have the answer...... except to think that someone thinks that we "rich Americans" can afford it.

But then, how do the rich and super-rich in other countries look at themselves in the mirror. Rrrright......time for a musical break.


Aloha, Mark
 
Agreed w/o profit these miracle meds wouldn't be invented.

Bio-Med company works on 10 new medicines spending tens of millions on R&D. One of the ten makes it through testing and the FDA, they then have 7 years to realize a profit before their copyright gets removed allowing competition.

Are you going to risk your millions? Or maybe these drugs just don't get invented?

Capitalism isn't perfect it just doesn't have a close #2.
 
BTW, the same med in Europe costs about $800 per month!


This is a different question. If you pay out of pocket $10. for the month, what does the medicine cost?
What is your share of insurance?, what is employers share?

Does a state agent set the price?




What does it cost to make something?

Say I write software to make a forum like this software. To produce it, the manufacture, costs next to zero. I have to have some storage and bandwidth. But a very low cost per unit. What did the development cost? Marketing? Administration? Tax? How do I pay for that? ( How about a movie? or eBook)
Let's say that my storage and bw are $1, could I sell the software for $39.99? Would you feel ripped off? What if I charged $3999.

Value is what you perceive it to be. You may feel a1911 is a great design and be willing to pay $2k. I might think it is out of date and not want to pay $2. What did it 'cost' to make that gun? What does that have to do with it?
Is a Kimber 1911 worth more than Rock Island? Because of name? reputation? Who is right?
 
On meds...

I went thru 7 GI doctors for my masssive gut issues.

Last one gave me a sample of a drug cocktail invented in the 70's and was widely used.

Newer designer drugs meant to replace it didn't help me at all.

Switch to Kaiser and it's not on their 'approved to keep in stock' list.

Pills (which don't help near as well) cost me $350 out of pocket.

Liquid per bottle (which gives me almost instant relief) costs me $650 each out of pocket.

I can't afford either so I am SOL and just have to do my best with diet - it's not always reliable and I still have nights where I am dang near in tears from the cramps that go along with my issue for 6-10 hours.

This was developed in the 70's and they have more then made their profit back from R&D.


Maybe it isn't produced in enough quantity but though my previous insurance they would give me two bottles a month for my low co-pay.

Big pharma is a scam and they are in the business of keeping people sick and not curing them - their profit shares would go way down if the my actually helped people.

Sorry rant over
 
Hmm great question & an interesting topic for sure.

In my mind it would involve buying up anything as deemed essential, AFTER it is deemed such, AND doing so for profiteering. Not for personal use.

Anything stocked up before "deemed essential", for any reason, not hoarding / profiteering. IMO.
This was going to be my answer verbatim.
 
Status

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top