How do we stop idiots like this guy ...

[DWaterhouse]

I didn't even consider that guy a trespasser. If he turned in and turned around, he was probably still on the easement. What I was thinking of was a bonafide trespasser.

So legally speaking you'd consider a bonafide trespasser as someone aware they are trespassing having seen a sign or something I'm assuming. In this situation, say they were still legally trespassing (many inlets and roads are still apart of property) you'd agree they would have had a defensive right to shoot to kill the property owner if the opportunity arose?

 

[Koda]

Uncle Mikes holsters are like Trojan Magnums. Few guns necessitate their size, but they'll all "fit".

A trespasser would have almost no way of proving self defense because he wasn't where he was at legally.

ok, I probably should step up my holster recommendation a notch, Uncle Mikes sucks but they are cheap and work.

....not if they were trying to leave like these guys were. Trespassing doesnt mean criminal intent, is only a misdemenor. There are many legit reasons why people trespass, like this one... they got lost. The legality of trespassing has little merit on self defense when there is no evidence of intentional trespassing. There are homeowners in prison for life for shooting trespassers....

 

[Koda]

I didn't even consider that guy a trespasser. If he turned in and turned around, he was probably still on the easement. What I was thinking of was a bonafide trespasser.

even a bonified trespasser has a right to defend themself from an armed and (or) threatening land owner. Trespassing is a misdemeanor... nothing about a misdemeanor warrants a gun on the homeowners part.

 

[DWaterhouse]

even a bonified trespasser has a right to defend themself from an armed and (or) threatening land owner. Trespassing is a misdemeanor... nothing about a misdemeanor warrants a gun on the homeowners part.

This is a good point.

 

[The Heretic]

Not when you chased someone down and blocked their escape (ie attempt to descalate and leave).

An Uncle Mikes holster is pretty cheap when you can afford multiple guns....
Cops have justifiably shot many people for gun in hand, its not really a great way to investigate bumps in the night and not a huge difference than pointing at someone. A trespasser has a legal right to defend his life...

I once responded to a driveby (not at my current residence - up in Seattle) with a gun in hand. Neighbor knocked on my door. I walked out to the street where the neighbors had gathered. I kept the gun hidden, and when the cops came I went back inside my domicile to preclude any misunderstandings.

Several times when I thought someone was messing around on my back acreage, I went back there with a shotgun in hand, pointed down, alongside my leg, not waving it around. Only once did I actually encounter someone - my neighbor whom I had asked to keep an eye on my burn piles - he had used his son's car which I did not recognize.

Out here, on the mountain, in the woods, it is not at all unusual for a landowner to walk around with a gun in hand, on their own land. To get to my property you have to go down a private road for almost half a mile. To get to my house you have to walk another 100 yards down a private driveway onto what is obviously private land. Do it after dark, and yeah, you might be facing a shotgun pointed at you if I don't recognize who or what you are (it is not uncommon for bears or cougars to come close to my house).

But chasing down a trespasser after the fact? Probably not - except maybe to get their license plate if they were up to no good. For making a u-turn on my property? Nope - delivery drivers do that from time to time. A bit of an over reaction IMO.

 

[No_Regerts]

So legally speaking you'd consider a bonafide trespasser as someone aware they are trespassing having seen a sign or something I'm assuming. In this situation, say they were still legally trespassing (many inlets and roads are still apart of property) you'd agree they would have had a defensive right to shoot to kill the property owner if the opportunity arose?

It would depend on the intent you had when you trespassed and the measures taken by the landowner to address the situation. If I was lost and had no phone signal, but came upon a house with a no trespass sign, I wouldn't think it would be reasonable for someone to address me with a firearm. Or if they did, mostly a "get off my lawn" situation. Do I "get off the X" and try and get in a gunfight....probably not. But if you can articulate what happened and why you defended yourself on someone else's property, I think it could work out.

If I were your ex-husband and showed up on your lawn after a contentious divorce, I don't think I'd win that one in court.

 

[DWaterhouse]

I once responded to a driveby with a gun in hand. Neighbor knocked on my door. I walked out to the street where the neighbors had gathered. I kept the gun hidden, and when the cops came I went back inside my domicile to preclude any misunderstandings.

Several times when I thought someone was messing around on my back acreage, I went back there with a shotgun in hand, pointed down, alongside my leg, not waving it around. Only once did I actually encounter someone - my neighbor whom I had asked to keep an eye on my burn piles - he had used his son's car which I did not recognize.

Out here, on the mountain, in the woods, it is not at all unusual for a landowner to walk around with a gun in hand, on their own land. To get to my property you have to go down a private road for almost half a mile. To get to my house you have to walk another 100 yards down a private driveway onto what is obviously private land. Do it after dark, and yeah, you might be facing a shotgun pointed at you if I don't recognize who or what you are (it is not uncommon for bears or cougars to come close to my house).

But chasing down a trespasser after the fact? Probably not - except maybe to get their license plate if they were up to no good. For making a u-turn on my property? Nope - delivery drivers do that from time to time. A bit of an over reaction IMO.

This just sounds like unnecessary and dangerous gun handling when there is no clear imminent threat, why not have a holster in which your firearm is secured and there's no chance of a misunderstanding?

 

[Koda]

I once responded to a driveby with a gun in hand. Neighbor knocked on my door. I walked out to the street where the neighbors had gathered. I kept the gun hidden, and when the cops came I went back inside my domicile to preclude any misunderstandings.

Several times when I thought someone was messing around on my back acreage, I went back there with a shotgun in hand, pointed down, alongside my leg, not waving it around. Only once did I actually encounter someone - my neighbor whom I had asked to keep an eye on my burn piles - he had used his son's car which I did not recognize.

Out here, on the mountain, in the woods, it is not at all unusual for a landowner to walk around with a gun in hand, on their own land. To get to my property you have to go down a private road for almost half a mile. To get to my house you have to walk another 100 yards down a private driveway onto what is obviously private land. Do it after dark, and yeah, you might be facing a shotgun pointed at you if I don't recognize who or what you are (it is not uncommon for bears or cougars to come close to my house).

But chasing down a trespasser after the fact? Probably not - except maybe to get their license plate if they were up to no good. For making a u-turn on my property? Nope - delivery drivers do that from time to time. A bit of an over reaction IMO.

a long arm in hand is a subjective scenario.... its legal, but just remember that trespassing is not a felony tort, there are plenty of "legit" mistakes that someone might be trespassing (drunk, lost, in need of help... ). I think the key with a long arm is your demenor. A slung rifle is appropriate, or perhaps pointing down... but just because someone has to intentionally walk 100yds on your property doesnt mean they are there with criminal intent. This is the delimma with trespassing many land owners make a mistake on.

 

[Koda]

But if you can articulate what happened and why you defended yourself on someone else's property, I think it could work out.

the "reasonable doubt" legal doctrine covers this. All other things being equal, if both parties have a gun and one is dead.... not enought to convict the trespasser claiming self defense.

 

[No_Regerts]

the "reasonable doubt" legal doctrine covers this. All other things being equal, if both parties have a gun and one is dead.... not enought to convict the trespasser claiming self defense.

Its the state's burden of proof, but it's an uphill battle. Which makes me think I'll post a "No Guns/Weapons Allowed" sign. That way, no one has a legal right to have a gun on my property but me, and LE when lawful performing their duties.

Well, sorta. I'd have to have them trespassed!

 

[The Heretic]

a long arm in hand is a subjective scenario.... its legal, but just remember that trespassing is not a felony tort, there are plenty of "legit" mistakes that someone might be trespassing (drunk, lost, in need of help... ). I think the key with a long arm is your demenor. A slung rifle is appropriate, or perhaps pointing down... but just because someone has to intentionally walk 100yds on your property doesnt mean they are there with criminal intent. This is the delimma with trespassing many land owners make a mistake on.

You have to be here.

It is not unusual to walk around on our property with guns; when you live on 10-100 acres, we are pretty free to do as we please, including walking out back and doing some plinking.

As I said, I could just as easily bump into a bear or cougar as bumping into a human, actually more likely the former than the latter.

Now someone coming up to my door this time of the night? Or messing around out by my shop or vehicles? You can bet I will go out there with a gun in hand. No reason for anybody to be out there after midnight and if it is a bear or cougar (or feral dog), not going out unarmed either.

That said, no crime out here except for the occasional dumping of trash, and that usually only happens on the public road, only once on our private road.

 

[Alexx1401]

This is the type of thing that will ultimately win the majority of the population over to banning guns. This is what the non gun owning person sees more often than not ... its no wonder why they vote the way they do.

Photos show Colorado man pulling gun on Hispanic couple after they performed a U-turn in his driveway

You "stop" this like you stop any crime. This guy should get locked up. When he loses everything he has worked for he can cry and make a great example for any other morons who may be inclined to do something this stupid. The old line "stupidity should be painful"

 

[Koda]

Which makes me think I'll post a "No Guns/Weapons Allowed" sign. That way, no one has a legal right to have a gun on my property but me, and LE when lawful performing their duties.

in Oregon or Washington no guns signs do not have any legal merit.... if the trespasser has a CHL (or is open carrying) he has a legal right to do so.
I'm not certain how that works out with trespassers...

in Oregon its a class A misdemeanor to trespass with a firearm. This doesnt change use of force laws though, I do know a trespasser does have a right to defend himself.

 

[Koda]

You have to be here.

It is not unusual to walk around on our property with guns; when you live on 10-100 acres, we are pretty free to do as we please, including walking out back and doing some plinking.

As I said, I could just as easily bump into a bear or cougar as bumping into a human, actually more likely the former than the latter.

Now someone coming up to my door this time of the night? Or messing around out by my shop or vehicles? You can bet I will go out there with a gun in hand. No reason for anybody to be out there after midnight and if it is a bear or cougar (or feral dog), not going out unarmed either.

That said, no crime out here except for the occasional dumping of trash, and that usually only happens on the public road, only once on our private road.

I get what your saying, and in many of those situations a gun in hand might be warranted if the evidence at hand reasonably indicates something more than a misdemeanor.
Im just saying use caution... Ive read case law examples of a guy serving life for shooting someone who came in his front door. The suspect was just drunk.

 

[No_Regerts]

in Oregon or Washington no guns signs do not have any legal merit.... if the trespasser has a CHL (or is open carrying) he has a legal right to do so.
I'm not certain how that works out with trespassers...

in Oregon its a class A misdemeanor to trespass with a firearm. This doesnt change use of force laws though, I do know a trespasser does have a right to defend himself.

That is true, but if you carry in a posted area and are figured out, you can be trespassed. You won't catch a gun charge, but your legal standing to be where you are is weaker. Hence why I mentioned being trespassed.

Beyond a reasonable doubt isn't as hard to prove to a jury as you'd think. Guy who shouldn't have been there, brought a gun with him, homeowner gets shot. Not looking good.

There is plenty of case law of people not being charged for shooting an intruder who turned out to be a parent or sibling. Objective reasonableness given the totality of circumstances.

 

[The Heretic]

I get what your saying, and in many of those situations a gun in hand might be warranted if the evidence at hand reasonably indicates something more than a misdemeanor.

Im just saying use caution... Ive read case law examples of a guy serving life for shooting someone who came in his front door. The suspect was just drunk.

What is likely to happen in the city is different from what is likely to happen in a rural area, down a private road, miles from anywhere. You could not mistake my house for your own for example. You can't drive onto my back acreage without passing two NO TRESPASSING signs and unhooking a chain across the dirt road with a NO TRESPASSING sign hanging from it.

 

[Koda]

What is likely to happen in the city is different from what is likely to happen in a rural area, down a private road, miles from anywhere. You could not mistake my house for your own for example. You can't drive onto my back acreage without passing two NO TRESPASSING signs and unhooking a chain across the dirt road with a NO TRESPASSING sign hanging from it.

now I agree. Because the evidence at hand reasonably indicates something bigger than a misdemeanor. I would still let the cops do the investigating though...

 

[billdeserthills]

I'm sure this is a 'one and done' transgression-- this guy may very well lose his rights for this

 

[No_Regerts]

I'm sure this is a 'one and done' transgression-- this guy may very well lose his rights for this

Like the dude in Olympia that confronted a guy in a derelict RV in his neighborhood. I think he is in his late 50s or 60s. He actually cooked off a round that ping ponged through the RV and hit the driver in the ear.

 

[No_Regerts]

Homeowner shoots at man dumping raw sewage in neighborhood

<p>An outraged homeowner is accused of shooting at a man who was dumping raw sewage from an RV right in front of his house.</p>

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