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How Did This Border Patrol Agent’s Gun Snap in Half?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Chee-to, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There is a case to be made for traditional metal weapons over newer, polymer technology.

    Example A is provided by The Loadout Room, a subset of SOFREP.com (the special operations forces report). It reports the following photos come from a border patrol agent who fell off his ATV while training. The short visit to the hospital by the agent wasn’t the only collateral damage of the fall, though. His P2000 handgun snapped at the handle.

    Polymer-Gun-Fail_Loadout-Room_1.jpg click pic to enlarge

    More pics at link

    The Loadout Room Shows Pictures of Snapped P200 Handgun from Border Patrol Agent | TheBlaze.com

    Polymer-Gun-Fail_Loadout-Room_1.jpg
     
  2. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    considering the girth of some border patrol agents, it's a wonder his atv didn't snap in half.
     
  3. lamrith

    lamrith tacoma Active Member

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    Durability in extreme situations aside, it is a tribute to modern guns and their built in safety features since it did not go off given such extreme forces in play. Also interesting how well that holster held the weapon during the accident.
     
  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    "handle"? I always thought it was a grip.
     
  5. PaulZ

    PaulZ Oregon City Active Member

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    The answer::rolleyes:1911 Colt. Now I'm going to make popcorn and watch the show!
     
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  6. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

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    Paul, that doesn't seem very nice to say... I'm thinking any sidearm that was made with more metal would have held up to that abuse,
    It would not have to be a Colt...Kimber, Springfield Armory and Ruger 1911's would have faired just fine :)
     
  7. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Now that there is evidence of some seriously flawed materials engineering, probably combined with nonexistent QA.

    I work with engineering polymers and their composites for a living, and I'd never tolerate that kind of failure from one of my medical devices, much less a sidearm!

    Any one of the hand-held devices that I make could be used to beat a rhino to death without any obvious damage to it. For a catastrophic failure like this to happen, it looks to me that they must've shot this overmold at too low a temperature and popped it out too quick. Somebody decided to speed up production, and finessed the fab parameters.

    The key is to look for the mold sprues on the failed frame, and see if it broke along the line connecting them. If so, the failure was due at least in part to "strain alignment" of the polymer, which makes it prone to splitting in the flow direction.

    Do you think that this was the first big ole guy to fall on his pistol? Why don't we see failures like this all the time? Because that gun should've been tough enough to become fully embedded in his arse long before it busted in half.
     
  8. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    No mag in...I saw a similar thing happen to a 2nd Gen Glock 19. The pistol cracked from the mag release to the back strap on one side. All the shooter did was a roll from his non firing side to his firing side...Glock replaced it for free- now he basically has a brand new Gen 3 so he made out like a bandit.
     
  9. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible then there may be more of these 'mistakes' out there or is this an isolated problem based on your experience?
     
  10. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    It's unlikely that it's a one-off problem. And I seriously doubt that there was no mag in it when he landed on it.

    I sure would like to know what shop shoots their plastic, and what changes the place has been through lately.
    People die, retire, move on, and businesses get sold and re-sold to pencil-pushers trying to turn a profit.
    Y'all know what flows downhill, and at some point even the most dedicated operators throw up their hands and walk.
     
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  11. lamrith

    lamrith tacoma Active Member

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    I would also be useful to get more information on the fall and what other gear he had on, remember this was during the crash of a motorized vehicle in the desert. He may not be badly hurt because he was geared up for riding his ATV, but when he fell he may have slid on that side of his body and the grip caught on anything he slid over.

    Not saying a steel frame would not have taken the damage better and stayed in one piece, but those images look like there were some very extreme forces at play. You never know, A steel frame may have been yanked out of the holster and gone off in the same fall, being poly may have saved his life.
     
  12. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    Wait a minute. We wonder why a plastic gun broke?
    In 1984 we knew plastic was not something you made a gun out of. Today it's strange to people that plastic broke. Just like plastic!
     
  13. liftedzuki

    liftedzuki Kennewick, WA New Member

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    Nothin wrong with plastic.
     
  14. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Wonder how many people here are actually qualified to speak on the topic. Here's one article a ME friend sent me: Mechanical Properties of Polymers

    Disclaimer: I'm not ME or MatSci, but from the scientific literature that I do understand, the all-metal fetishists have zero scientific backing.
     
  15. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    I think I'm qualified to know when a handgun will not work because it's snapped in half!
    Funny how my metal fetish has led me to guns that don't snap in half. Say. Have any of you folks had a metal guns break in half? You know. I think there might be some scientific reason to make a gun out of metal.
     
  16. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    Metal can be reworked, refashioned, repaired, welded, modified returned to a previous comfiguration. What you gonna do with plastic? Bondo? JB Weld? Crazy Glue?

    Plastic is good for disposable items, not for guns. Unless of course you want a disposable gun, then go for it.

    Give me metal any day.

    This does not make it any more a fetish than polymer gun owners have. I guess it's easy to make the transition from plastic toys, cars, phones to plastic guns.
     
  17. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Something like this?

    img1556m.jpg

    I recently watched a video of a Ruger factory tour where they demonstrated dropping a 5 pound weight on their new polymer trigger guards. Polymer came through without a scratch, the old aluminium guard split in two.

    Just like metals there are many different plastics out there with different properties, and gun frames polymers aren't the same as clamshell packaging. Your reasoning isn't scientific, it's not even empirical, it's purely emotional.
     
  18. BryanMunson

    BryanMunson United States, Albany, OR Member

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    It's called force and leverage properly applied. Most videos or intentional impacts are from the side and over a large area, this handgun was hit on the grip perpendicular to the barrel and it broke at the weak point.Every structure has a weak point and with the right application of force in the proper direction and orientaion (vector) you can probably do that to any polymer gun, shoot you could do it to any gun. I'd bet I could do the same to a Glock/XD/M&P or other poly gun, breaking stuff isn't as hard as building stuff :D De-milled guns are rendered inoperable by variations of force application.
     
  19. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Actually, it's called one out of several million.

    You know why these pics only pop up once every few years, despite the millions upon millions of poly-framed pistols in current, daily usage? I need not answer.
     
  20. Medic!

    Medic! What just happened? Has eagle eyes. But cant remember what he saw. Bronze Supporter

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    I give up! That damn metal gun snapped right in half. But is that fair? I mean all pistols use metal slides and barrels.
    I guess I'm gona have to have my guns carved out of stone or somethin now?
    Look. I don't hate plastic. It works. I just don't think it's as tuff as metal.
    Maybe Glock did such a good job making a plastic gun that people realy began to trust them. Now we except plastic guns from others that don't do as good a job? Some of the new guns like kel-tec and others use what looks like fiberglass or something more brittle than what Glock uses.
    I have Glocks and like their flavor of plastic. For what I subject my guns to it's fine. Now I would pick a all metal pistol if I was going to some far off battle field.