Hounds running a bear today

[SwampDonkey]

This isn't meant to offend anyone! I've never met a fat boy that ran hounds for Lion, and that's the honest to Gods truth as I know it. If you go back and read my post, You will see how I believe it does work. If I take a shot at a cat at 200 plus yards, I cant tell if she is a mother with cubs, or a mature tom. The law states that I cant shoot a Sow with cubs, nor a female mountain lion with cubs. Yet, have you ever squeezed the trigger on a bear when you were close enough to identify it as a proof positive boar? I've held my breath a couple of times when I rolled him/her over and checked. You can sit and watch a bear on a slope for an hour and not know.

When we divide ourselves as a group, we fall together. And while it is healthy to point out disagreements in tactics that are, or were within the law, when we vote to erode each others preferences away we all loose with each step.
I don't hunt ducks any longer, because I don't enjoy the taste. Their suckers for a good call and a good spread of decoys though, does that mean that they shouldn't be hunted over decoys or calls? The bull Elk I hunt fall dead to an arrow while drawn into a call because they cant help themselves, should we ban calls there too? How about hunting over a black berry patch for bear, or a watering hole for any species? Where do you draw the line? These are personal choices that I believe are best left up to the individual. As I see it, when we start dismantling ourselves as a group, were done.

AH, you should see the hoggin crowd. They look like a bunch of pro bowlers. Hunting with dogs was something I did when in highschool, lost my taste for it when I grew up. We have the ability to kill an animal from a distance, is that not enough? If you're lazy and its too hard for you to find game then find another hobby. Sports are supposed to be hard, but the lure of the trophy and bragging rights has led to more and more drastic (and yes, unsportsman like) means of obtaining impressive game. On some private ranches in S.TX deer hunting is little more than putting your beer down to shoot an animal while it walk up to the truck. Pathetic.
I understand that humans have a tough time finding game in rough terrain and on big chunks of land, but isnt that the point? Its supposed to be tough, thats where the pride and satisfaction comes from when you finally bag that target. Having dogs do the work for you isnt something to be proud of, its an admission of incapacity. Its about as sporting as fishing with dynamite.
In these situation you ARE NOT the hunter, the dogs are. All you did was put a bullet in the animal they tracked and cornered (and in many cases could have brought down without you).

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Im curious, did you read my first post? I personally choose to hunt my game while still hunting. While I respect your right to choose any method of hunting that is legal, when it comes to controlling predators such as bear and lion that have become an issue due to depredation, or a danger to humans, then it becomes mandatory to use hounds. Here in Oregon, our population of Mountain lions and bear are increasing at a very rapid rate since voters took the ability to control these predators using dogs to hunt them.
Sightings around schools and major populations seem to occur almost daily recently.
I hope Im wrong, but I believe its only a matter of time before we loose a child to one of these animals. When a problem animal is to be culled now, the state has its hands tied and has to hire expensive professional hunters that bring in dogs to take the animal. Prior to the voter elimination of hunting bear and cat with dogs by sportsman, they made revenue from the costs of licence fees that these houndsmen and their hunters paid to harvest them, the state now has to compensate ranchers for the depredation of their livestock by these animals. The increase upon our deer and elk herds have been dramatic due to the increase in the Cougar and bear population also.

There must be "pardon the choice of words" a big, huge difference between those that run hounds for cougar and those that run dogs for hogs, Perhaps its the vast, vertical and perpendicular terrain that we have here? While I wouldn't personally choose this method to hunt them, I wouldn't deem to take their choice away, no more than I would a hunters choice to take a deer from an elevated stand.
I applaud your personal decision to make your hunt more challenging. I believe in fair chase and ethical harvest. When it comes to hunting, I choose to attempt to harvest Elk using archery, and Deer, Bear and cat with rifle, on foot and generally miles from my vehicle and alone, those are my choices. Once again we are back to the apex of this debate, are we not? And once again I'll make this statement,,These are personal choices that I believe are best left up to the individual. As I see it, when we start dismantling ourselves as a group, were done.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Mountain Lion Attacks from 1991 to 2000 Mountain Lion Attacks from 2001 to 2010 And for Black bear, List of fatal bear attacks in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Three very good reasons to hunt bear and cat with dogs,, just my opinion.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There must be "pardon the choice of words" a big, huge difference between those that run hounds for cougar and those that run dogs for hogs, Perhaps its the vast, vertical and perpendicular terrain that we have here.

Very few hogs will run 500 yards, much less lead a pack of dogs and hunter over many miles of bad terrain for several hours or days like a lion will.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Im curious, did you read my first post? I personally choose to hunt my game while still hunting. While I respect your right to choose any method of hunting that is legal, when it comes to controlling predators such as bear and lion that have become an issue due to depredation, or a danger to humans, then it becomes mandatory to use hounds. Here in Oregon, our population of Mountain lions and bear are increasing at a very rapid rate since voters took the ability to control these predators using dogs to hunt them.
Sightings around schools and major populations seem to occur almost daily recently.
I hope Im wrong, but I believe its only a matter of time before we loose a child to one of these animals. When a problem animal is to be culled now, the state has its hands tied and has to hire expensive professional hunters that bring in dogs to take the animal. Prior to the voter elimination of hunting bear and cat with dogs by sportsman, they made revenue from the costs of licence fees that these houndsmen and their hunters paid to harvest them, the state now has to compensate ranchers for the depredation of their livestock by these animals. The increase upon our deer and elk herds have been dramatic due to the increase in the Cougar and bear population also.

There must be "pardon the choice of words" a big, huge difference between those that run hounds for cougar and those that run dogs for hogs, Perhaps its the vast, vertical and perpendicular terrain that we have here? While I wouldn't personally choose this method to hunt them, I wouldn't deem to take their choice away, no more than I would a hunters choice to take a deer from an elevated stand.
I applaud your personal decision to make your hunt more challenging. I believe in fair chase and ethical harvest. When it comes to hunting, I choose to attempt to harvest Elk using archery, and Deer, Bear and cat with rifle, on foot and generally miles from my vehicle and alone, those are my choices. Once again we are back to the apex of this debate, are we not? And once again I'll make this statement,,These are personal choices that I believe are best left up to the individual. As I see it, when we start dismantling ourselves as a group, were done.

Predation is not a cause for declining populations of game in any ecosystem. Survival strategy is built into both predator and prey and they did just fine for countless generations before we stepped in. In the African Serrengetti, they continue to do just fine despite predator density. Predator control means more individuals survive than the area can support and now you have to supplement the feed, cull off animals, ect. If you're arguing that its a "good thing", sorry, its not. The more management imposed on local S. TX ranches, the more they become farms. Zero challenge in shooting a 180 class buck. You could literally do it from a recliner in the bed of a truck.
When you say "our population of Mountain lions and bear are increasing at a very rapid rate", do you really mean population, or do you mean density? They are two very different things.
And yes, I believe the more challenging the hunt the more rewarding. Hog hunting with the dogs was exciting for a while but I ended up feeling bad afterwards. Watching my dog maul a terrified and screaming animal while waiting for me to shoot it just got to me. I still enjoyed hunting and fishing but sought more humane ways of taking game.

In the end, I think we actually agree on most of our philosphy. But I do think predators have the right to game as much as we do, perhaps more so. I would never condemn anyone for hunting, but we should'nt condemn nature's hunters either. They do it for survival, not sport. You could say its their job to constantly strengthen the gene pool of the animals we hunt.

 

[Joe Link]

Just want to step in and thank everyone for keeping this discussion civil and respectful

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Just want to step in and thank everyone for keeping this discussion civil and respectful

As well it should be, the only thing were missing here is a couple of cold beers, so on that note,,,:drink:

 

[salmonriverjohn]

QUOTE=SwampDonkey;426549] When you say "our population of Mountain lions and bear are increasing at a very rapid rate", do you really mean population, or do you mean density? They are two very different things.
I still enjoyed hunting and fishing but sought more humane ways of taking game.

In the end, I think we actually agree on most of our philosphy. But I do think predators have the right to game as much as we do, perhaps more so. I would never condemn anyone for hunting, but we should'nt condemn nature's hunters either. They do it for survival, not sport. You could say its their job to constantly strengthen the gene pool of the animals we hunt.[/QUOTE]

SwampDonkey, I was referring to their population before, and after the use of dogs was banned. Also when hounds were used for over 100 years in this state to pursue both of these species of predators, they had an innate fear of the proximity to the also native to the north American continent species, man ingrained into them.
As Im sure you know, when a young male Cougar, or male bear leaves its mother and has to find new territory, it faces the very real possibility that it will run into another larger male Cougar or bear that will kill it if able to reduce competition, which forces it to expand farther into other areas that which will occasionally put it into conflict with the other species of predator, man.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Also in the houndsmen's repertoire was the spring pursuit season. This served to condition the predators to avoid human contact as well as train the dogs.
No animals were killed during pursuit season, as there was no open season on them at the time.

Cougars are now open all year long, with multiple tags per hunter available, due to overpopulation and the cougar's lack of fear of populated areas.

Bring back the dogs.

 

[beardogs31]

hunting with hounds is not as laid back or lazy as most think. i have hunted hounds my whole life (51yrs) . its not setting by the road waiting for my dogs to strike a bear it is driving around untill they strike or even walking in with them when there r no roads to find a track. I have walked many miles up and down canyons fell off rock cliffs fell in holes looking for my dogs after a bear . tell me where that is not hunting ?