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HOT! Issa threatens ATF director with contempt

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It hit the fan this morning (April 20) for ATF's Ken Melson

    BREAKING: Angry Issa threatens ATF with contempt over Gunrunner stonewalling


    Congressman Darrell Issa has threatened the acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives with a contempt citation for having failed to produce any documents relating to Project Gunrunner that Issa subpoenaed on March 31.

    BREAKING: Angry Issa threatens ATF with contempt over Gunrunner stonewalling - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  2. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    I'm guessing they will destroy those documents and suffer the consequences for that vs bringing all sorts of damaging info to light. Wouldn't be the first time...
     
  3. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    It's heating up but ATF has some tricks left up their sleeves. They truly do hold the American Citizen and anyone actually representing them in utter contempt
     
  4. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Sounds like the Clinton WH!! Fire up the shredders!!
     
  5. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Dave, good stuff as always. I wish Issa the best of luck exposing and prosecuting these bozos. We cannot let them sweep this under the rug!

    Contact Darrel Issa and give him a few words of encouragement. :thumbup:
     
  6. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    My letter to Mr Issa

     
  7. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure we are all familiar with the 'perfect storm" scenario....I see one here: 1.) Our nation desperately needs to cut spending. 2.) An election is coming up. 3.) ATF has totally screwed the pooch on this, and has shown an utter contempt for the law, and the Congress. I think a concentrated effort could bring about the drastic gutting of ATF's authority and funding, or perhaps even its abolition. I urge all of us to contact our Congressional delegations and urge budget savings by eliminating as much of the ATF's funding as possible in light of their clumsy work and utter disregard for the law.
    Of course criminal prosecution should be effected against the ATF and DOJ people responsible, and our representatives should be reminded that we are watching their actions in light of the approaching election.
     
  8. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Keep up the good work Dave.We wouldn't have this info. if you didn't post it.
     
  9. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    Fixed It For Ya,
    No Charge
     
  10. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    I contacted Mr Issa and now I'm lust gonna sit back & relax & wait for the ATF & The Justice Dept.to be shut down. Thanks Mr Issa!
     
  11. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Considering that the very exsistence of this agency is 100% unconstitutional..I would think that if it COULD be shut down..it WOULD have been long ago.. Just more evidence..as if we needed any more..that the rights of The People..mean nothing to those in power...
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  12. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Might as well order a pizza.
     
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    And The Columbian STILL hasn't reported ANYTHING about it!! The Oregonian did have one story several weeks ago, but it was about the CBS coverage

    Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
    Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
    John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

    80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    Washington Arms Collector member
    South West Washington Arms Collector member
     
  14. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    To me this looks bigger than Watergate! We can only hope it will bring down the Obwan administration in all it's corruption!!

    Eight U.S. Presidents have been NRA members. They are: Ulysses S. Grant,
    Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Dwight D. Eisenhower,
    John F. Kennedy, Richard M. Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George Bush

    80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    Washington Arms Collector member
    South West Washington Arms Collector member
     
  15. xm193

    xm193 seatac Active Member

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    thanks dave
     
  16. fletcher

    fletcher Washington Co. Member

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    While I share the disdain of the ATF along with most of you, I am curious on what grounds the ATF is unconstitutional. It seems to me that it is constitutional under the Interstate Commerce Clause, since the ATF (by mandate from congress) is regulating the commerce of firearms across state lines.

    Don't get me wrong. I would like to repeal the NFA and the GCA, as well as get rid of the ATF. However, it doesn't seem constructive to label something as unconstitutional without showing how.
     
  17. chris61182

    chris61182 A little west of Portland Active Member

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    How do you regulate something, even if it's interstate, that "shall not be infringed?"

    Disregarding that for a moment, if it was only the interstate regulation their power would have to end at the FFL, and all these states' firearms freedom laws would be valid :). Which of course is not the stance that the ATF and DOJ want to take on the matter.
     
  18. fletcher

    fletcher Washington Co. Member

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    Well, it wouldn't be the first time that the government has contradicted itself legislatively.

    I guess we could get into the nitty-gritty of whether or not interstate regulation infringes on rights, but I am not a legal scholar. I am sure both sides of that argument can get blue in the face over that question.

    I agree completely that the current mandate of the ATF has grossly overreached constitutional authority. I did a quick scan of Wikipedia on the ATF, and it was interesting see that it's original purpose was a tax collection unit on Alcohol sales for the treasury, but had (almost) noting to do with enforcement.
     
  19. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    The issue, as many states have expressed, is whether or not the BATFE has the power to regulate a firearm before it crosses a state's boundary, for the purposes of interstate commerce. By virtue of the 10th amendment, the federal government doesn't expressly have police powers. At least other than for federal property (Nat'l forests, parks etc) and the military. (expressly NOT the militia)
    While there has been the federal Marshals under the DOJ for ages, they were/are restricted to crimes against the nation, not states (their statutes), or individuals.

    New Deal (FDR) legislation expanded congressional power to regulate interstate commerce involving labor issues, agricultural commodities and taxation. Until then it was limited to strict guidelines involving interstate sales of goods and transportation services like railroads, or river navigation. Since then, they have at times, and on various issues, claimed a right to police forces as an extension of the commerce clause. But that still doesn't resolve the issue of whether or not they can regulate (or enforce) within the boundaries of a state.

    The ATF (BATFE) came about as the enforcement arm of the IRS/Dept. of the Treasury, to enforce collection of taxes, specifically those on alcohol and tobacco. Then in response to the Gun Control Act of 1968, added the firearms division, in '70 the explosives division. But it was still under the control of the treasury dept., for the purpose of regulating things through the enforcement of tax collection.

    Then along came The Patriot Act. (the constitutionality of which continues to be debated, and was decried by Obama before it was his to control) The patriot act shifted control of the BATFE to the Dept. of Justice, and simultaneously created the Dept. of Homeland Security. The 10thA was skirted by much of it, claiming that the DHS is only involved in helping local/state and federal investigative forces to "connect the dots."

    When the Marshal's service, the BATFE and the FBI are deployed under direct orders of the Dept. of Homeland Security, often without local police involvement, it gets pretty obvious there is no provision in the constitution that supports a federal police agency to this degree, or for purposes not clearly defined/justified by the constitution.

    Since the creation of the ATF was intended to enforce taxes under the Dept of the Treasury, justified by the interstate commerce clause and federal taxation, by moving them to the DOJ the feds lost that justification, within the confines of the constitution, taxation and congressional powers.

    Since then, the role of the BATFE has morphed into some kind of federal police force claiming absolute authority, but with few clear boundaries (as defined by the constitution) as to their jurisdiction.

    By stating that the BATFE is unconstitutional, one has interpreted the founder's documents in the spirit with which they were created. That being, as the primary limiter of federal powers. The 10th Amendment clearly states that if the constitution doesn't say the fed can, it can't, and that is left to the states.

    One of the scariest lines Obama ever uttered was in his interview with Bill O'Reilly(IIRC) when he said:
    I believe the actions of the BATFE under the current DOJ leadership is a prime example of what is wrong with that philosophy and why.
     
  20. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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